I know Scrum is an Agile framework, adopted by more than half the organizations that have professed to have moved to Agile. But if Scrum ends up as a huge majority (compared to XP, Kanban etc.) say 90% utilization, could it end up competing one day with Agile by nominating itself as "Agile2" for example? Saving Changes...
Michael WilliamsSr. Project Manager| Itron, Inc.Spokane, Wa, United States
Unfortunately I think the language is getting in the way here. Agile as first envisioned, is essentially the Lean manufacturing process applied to software. That being said, we can work backwards and see that Agile can be used for the entire organization in practically any industry. Now, SCRUM happens to be very closely aligned with Agile thoughts and methods, but SCRUM uses words and phrases that many business executives don't understand or don't like. This creates an immediate bias against SCRUM, when all you are trying to implement are proven Lean practices.
So, I say you cannot implement SCRUM - AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SCRUM ALLIANCE - in an organization that does not embrace Agile. The first thing that breaks is accountability between the team and the rest of the department or organization. Without the flow of trust Agile requires, the organization will never really let the team self organize and realize full efficiency.
Michel, sorry but that is not correct. I was part of the group where Agile was born: USA DoD NSF/Agility Forum in 1990 and that was before the Manifesto exists (by the way I was part of that movement too because I was part lf the group of authors of DSDM version 1 and 2 working with Arie Van Bennekum). Agile was born as an "innovation" of Lean to be applied at enteprise wide from strategy formulation to strategy implementation. Agile and Lean are not the same.
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Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 11, 2017 1:37 PM
Replying to Michael Williams
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Unfortunately I think the language is getting in the way here. Agile as first envisioned, is essentially the Lean manufacturing process applied to software. That being said, we can work backwards and see that Agile can be used for the entire organization in practically any industry. Now, SCRUM happens to be very closely aligned with Agile thoughts and methods, but SCRUM uses words and phrases that many business executives don't understand or don't like. This creates an immediate bias against SCRUM, when all you are trying to implement are proven Lean practices.
So, I say you cannot implement SCRUM - AS PRESCRIBED BY THE SCRUM ALLIANCE - in an organization that does not embrace Agile. The first thing that breaks is accountability between the team and the rest of the department or organization. Without the flow of trust Agile requires, the organization will never really let the team self organize and realize full efficiency.
Michel, sorry but that is not correct. I was part of the group where Agile was born: USA DoD NSF/Agility Forum in 1990 and that was before the Manifesto exists (by the way I was part of that movement too because I was part lf the group of authors of DSDM version 1 and 2 working with Arie Van Bennekum). Agile was born as an "innovation" of Lean to be applied at enteprise wide from strategy formulation to strategy implementation. Agile and Lean are not the same.
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1 reply by Michael Williams
Nov 11, 2017 4:22 PM
Michael Williams
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Sergio, I agree that Agile and Lean are not the same. They have the same roots, and many of the processes, tools, techniques, etc are the same. For this discussion I probably over-simplified. SCRUM is to Agile as Agile is to Lean, perhaps? Nice to talk to a founder, by the way, I am a late comer to the game.
Saving Changes...
Michael WilliamsSr. Project Manager| Itron, Inc.Spokane, Wa, United States
Nov 11, 2017 2:54 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Michel, sorry but that is not correct. I was part of the group where Agile was born: USA DoD NSF/Agility Forum in 1990 and that was before the Manifesto exists (by the way I was part of that movement too because I was part lf the group of authors of DSDM version 1 and 2 working with Arie Van Bennekum). Agile was born as an "innovation" of Lean to be applied at enteprise wide from strategy formulation to strategy implementation. Agile and Lean are not the same.
Sergio, I agree that Agile and Lean are not the same. They have the same roots, and many of the processes, tools, techniques, etc are the same. For this discussion I probably over-simplified. SCRUM is to Agile as Agile is to Lean, perhaps? Nice to talk to a founder, by the way, I am a late comer to the game.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Nov 11, 2017 6:13 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Well, I do not know if I am a founder. I could say that for incidental reasons of this life I was there when I worked on a company that was one of the key players in the field. My previous comment was intended to clarify some things people think about Agile is tied to software.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 11, 2017 4:22 PM
Replying to Michael Williams
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Sergio, I agree that Agile and Lean are not the same. They have the same roots, and many of the processes, tools, techniques, etc are the same. For this discussion I probably over-simplified. SCRUM is to Agile as Agile is to Lean, perhaps? Nice to talk to a founder, by the way, I am a late comer to the game.
Well, I do not know if I am a founder. I could say that for incidental reasons of this life I was there when I worked on a company that was one of the key players in the field. My previous comment was intended to clarify some things people think about Agile is tied to software. Saving Changes...
Guys my 2 cents among the many contributions, and is based on aspects we are trying to work within our organization. We had people who quite often confuse Agile with Scrum and also DevOps. What we try to talk/ explain is that one is "Being Agile" and the second is "Doing Agile", where with the former we try to talk more from a mindset perspective with the cultural change.
What we have seen at the place I work and also other companies is that being Agile helps us to transform (learn and adapt) our ways of working and I guess this is were the terms "Scrumban" comes into play. At the end of the day, the team needs to decide what should it do to provide the best possible value. As an example we have teams that started with Scrum, but have moved into Kanban, but still keep some of the ceremonies from scrum (thereby scrumban)...So be Agile, the practice is just a tool :) Saving Changes...