Steve RamsdellPM I| BergelectricQueen Creek, Az, United States
I have been in construction for going on 20 years now. From an apprenticeship I rose up to a Project Manager. Going on 3-4years now I have been doing Project Management full time and all my experience in that is from school, classes, online learning, and years of field work.
I have seen in my studies that there are some things I believe would be really effective if utilized in the construction field (e.g. PM styles like agile for instance) but I have yet to see anything really utilized. I know first hand how hard it is to get construction to adapt to change, but I am wondering if it is just my experience or if others have seen what I am saying in that “Project Management in construction” is nothing like what I read and study or seen others doing.
I utilize my toolbox of PM for myself because I wouldn’t know where to start to try to change it, but I am wondering if it is either I have just been on a rough side of an industry that refuses change and hates it in general or if others have seen it as well.
I appreciate the feedback/conversation Saving Changes...
Gavin AbshirePresident / Sr. Project Manager| River West Enterprises, IncLake Charles, La, United States
Nov 10, 2017 7:58 AM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
Let's forget about Agile in construction for the time being; it's a red herring. I think Steve's main question is project management practices in general in the industry. Steve, when you say "Project Management in construction” is nothing like what I read and study or seen others doing" can you be more specific? I assume in construction there is planning, a schedule, a budget, resources, risk assessment, quality assurance, scope, stakeholders, and a manager/s to oversee it all yes? That is project management, even if it doesn't include all of the 47 processes (a couple more now with PMBOK 6) that PMI has produced. I think the general issues is construction management has never really valued certified project managers as much as engineers, architects, surveyors etc. Have you been asked to get a PMP certification because management feels it's necessary? Probably not right? That tells you a lot about the level of faith the industry has in certified PM's, which is a shame, as guys like you could really shake things up, and yes include Agile practices in some areas of construction.
Agreed and very well said Sante. As one with 25 years in the construction industry as both contractor and Owner Representative, I can attest the nature of construction contracts and the performance thereof is extremely rigid where performance parameters and deliverables are set with specific deliverable date; i.e., Design, Bid, Build projects where contractors become involved during the bidding phase or Execution Phase per PMI. Unless there is an opportunity to partake in a Design / Build or Construction Manager at Risk (CMAR) project, involvement during core initiation and planning phases are unavailable. Furthermore, as most construction contracts are DBB in nature, using the "Agile Manefesto", is a pipe dream. The project sponsors are not going to accept a new building, medical facility, or bridge in "incremental deliverables". Typically there is one Substantial Completion and one Final Acceptance for the entire work. When it comes to developing a project management team towards becoming agile in managing change and implementing the change quickly and efficiently, well that's just good management period. With regards to Agile Practices for construction, I doubt it will ever take root. Why? Too many stakeholders would require a mind-reset; Owners, AIA / Engineer, standard contracts (AIA,Conspec,EJCDC,etc.), not to mention the contractors who do it "the way we've always done it"...
No sir, adoption of newer practices or methodologies is a hill most will not be willing to climb. Example, I know contractors who still depend on Project 2007 and fax machines...
...
1 reply by Steve Ramsdell
Nov 14, 2017 8:05 AM
Steve Ramsdell
...
This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I believe the same thing. I can see how it would help in a variety of ways, but in construction particularly, I feel as though if nothing else, people don't want to change.
If it worked in the past they don't focus on the best or most efficient, they are reactive to problems instead of proactive, and change seems to come when there is a loss not to gain "more" if that makes sense
Saving Changes...
Gavin AbshirePresident / Sr. Project Manager| River West Enterprises, IncLake Charles, La, United States
Steve,
I have walked in your shoes. I wish PMI would provide a concentration tailored for the construction industry. One thing to keep in mind, the PMBOK is merely a body of knowledge and not a how-to guide. You decide which knowledge area and when to apply that helps you and the stakeholders around you. There are portions of every knowledge area you can put to good use. My go-to sections are communications and risk management. Master these two and you'll find the other knowledge areas become even more useful.
Yes, Stephane I have it. But I would like to see a prime or sub-certification specific to our industry; i.e., "PMI-CMP" - Construction Management Professional. The classes I took in 2011 were filled with IT guys, software developers, insurance carriers, and those within the medical and mass communications field. Steve and I are in the lower 1% I presume! In addition, many HR Generalists within the the construction industry, especially the industrial sector, recognize PMI, but prefer AACE and CCMA certifications.
Saving Changes...
Anton OosthuizenSenior Business Analyst / Project Manager| Self EmployedPretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
100% correct. And so were many other practises that are now considered 'Agile'. It does not change the fact that to implement rolling wave planning, or adaptive planning, provides agility. Most agile practises were not invented but mearly formalized. When we applied some of these principles back in the 80' we were called cowboys not because it could not work but because it was not formalized and controlled. Agile and the different frameworks used to implement agile adopted most of its practises from something that existed.
Yes adaptive planning is being used by other domains but it has different lables such as sprint in SCRUM etc. Unfortunately we are the wrong things, it is about which agile princpiles can be adopted and how. Just because there is an Agile Manifesto that explicitly refers to software does not mean these principles cannot be implemented succesfully in any domain. Of course you will not implement the pricinple of incremental delivery exaclty as it is stated since it calls for working software.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Nov 13, 2017 3:59 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
You take a very interesting point. Just to add something about a personal experience let me say. I was the leader of the Agile community of interest inside the PMI Buenos Aires Chapter by three years. The orientation we did was talking about Agile beyond IT and Software. Each week we had perople that talked about that experience in concrete projects. We did an exercise. We took the Manifesto and Principles and we modify it changing all reference to software. The intention was using it as a guide to implement Agile into other intiative than software. It worked.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 13, 2017 1:00 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
...
100% correct. And so were many other practises that are now considered 'Agile'. It does not change the fact that to implement rolling wave planning, or adaptive planning, provides agility. Most agile practises were not invented but mearly formalized. When we applied some of these principles back in the 80' we were called cowboys not because it could not work but because it was not formalized and controlled. Agile and the different frameworks used to implement agile adopted most of its practises from something that existed.
Yes adaptive planning is being used by other domains but it has different lables such as sprint in SCRUM etc. Unfortunately we are the wrong things, it is about which agile princpiles can be adopted and how. Just because there is an Agile Manifesto that explicitly refers to software does not mean these principles cannot be implemented succesfully in any domain. Of course you will not implement the pricinple of incremental delivery exaclty as it is stated since it calls for working software.
You take a very interesting point. Just to add something about a personal experience let me say. I was the leader of the Agile community of interest inside the PMI Buenos Aires Chapter by three years. The orientation we did was talking about Agile beyond IT and Software. Each week we had perople that talked about that experience in concrete projects. We did an exercise. We took the Manifesto and Principles and we modify it changing all reference to software. The intention was using it as a guide to implement Agile into other intiative than software. It worked. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Nov 12, 2017 7:02 PM
Replying to Gavin Abshire
...
Steve,
I have walked in your shoes. I wish PMI would provide a concentration tailored for the construction industry. One thing to keep in mind, the PMBOK is merely a body of knowledge and not a how-to guide. You decide which knowledge area and when to apply that helps you and the stakeholders around you. There are portions of every knowledge area you can put to good use. My go-to sections are communications and risk management. Master these two and you'll find the other knowledge areas become even more useful.
Gavin AbshirePresident / Sr. Project Manager| River West Enterprises, IncLake Charles, La, United States
Nov 12, 2017 7:02 PM
Replying to Gavin Abshire
...
Steve,
I have walked in your shoes. I wish PMI would provide a concentration tailored for the construction industry. One thing to keep in mind, the PMBOK is merely a body of knowledge and not a how-to guide. You decide which knowledge area and when to apply that helps you and the stakeholders around you. There are portions of every knowledge area you can put to good use. My go-to sections are communications and risk management. Master these two and you'll find the other knowledge areas become even more useful.
Yes, Stephane I have it. But I would like to see a prime or sub-certification specific to our industry; i.e., "PMI-CMP" - Construction Management Professional. The classes I took in 2011 were filled with IT guys, software developers, insurance carriers, and those within the medical and mass communications field. Steve and I are in the lower 1% I presume! In addition, many HR Generalists within the the construction industry, especially the industrial sector, recognize PMI, but prefer AACE and CCMA certifications.
...
1 reply by Vincent Guerard
Nov 13, 2017 8:57 PM
Vincent Guerard
...
Gavin,
There is many people in the construction industry with PMP certification. They are just not active, or as active as IT people.
Depending when you made you PMP, in recent years I think there is a big demand from IT industry on PMP. Construction industry is more a steady flow.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
I suspect you won't see PMI get into industry-specific certifications. All their certifications are currently industry-agnostic.
Plus, I'm hoping the PMI-CMP will be used for Change Management Professional.
...
1 reply by Vincent Guerard
Nov 13, 2017 8:52 PM
Vincent Guerard
...
Abbreviation at PMI, this won't be the first duplicate!
Out of context what is RBS? Risk Breakdown Structure or Ressource Breakdown Structure
The construction industry can work using most of Agile principle.
The way you need to do it is not like software with iteration. You can have mock-up, that can be change until the user is satisfied. You can use BIM technology to simulate the building, do virtual visit, make many simulation in a virtual environment.
I was in a large Hospital construction, we use both technique BIM and Mock-up of operating room, patient room, department front desk.... Most of the adjustment/change were made on the mock-up, the important ones. Saving Changes...
"Thousands of candles can be lighted from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened. Happiness never decreases by being shared."
