Steve RamsdellPM I| BergelectricQueen Creek, Az, United States
I have been in construction for going on 20 years now. From an apprenticeship I rose up to a Project Manager. Going on 3-4years now I have been doing Project Management full time and all my experience in that is from school, classes, online learning, and years of field work.
I have seen in my studies that there are some things I believe would be really effective if utilized in the construction field (e.g. PM styles like agile for instance) but I have yet to see anything really utilized. I know first hand how hard it is to get construction to adapt to change, but I am wondering if it is just my experience or if others have seen what I am saying in that “Project Management in construction” is nothing like what I read and study or seen others doing.
I utilize my toolbox of PM for myself because I wouldn’t know where to start to try to change it, but I am wondering if it is either I have just been on a rough side of an industry that refuses change and hates it in general or if others have seen it as well.
I appreciate the feedback/conversation Saving Changes...
I said "resident", not residential, meaning a member of our community forum here. I would love to be involved in those $200M-$1B projects of yours, and my hand is raised since it's under your purview. That way, I can return hencewith and provide input to the community from my newly garnered significant industry management experience :-) Saving Changes...
MoSCoW is a method to prioritize. It does not matter time-boxing or other type of things. Is not tied to work with time boxing or not. And it is not tied to software. That is basic in Agile and other disciplines/pracitces: you have to use what best fit to the initiative. We used MoSCoW into a construction project. Agile if more than an approach, like Lean. When people put Agile in practice (as Lean) then they understand the essence. PRINCE2 Agile is an "innovation" derivated from DSDM. DSDM plus PRINCE2 was the genesis of that. At the end, it does not matter. Once again, people trend to talk about methods when talk about Agile. And that is totally wrong. As I mentioned, today we are appying Agile with waterfall based life cycle for example in my actual work place.
Sergio
In 2003, Mary and Tom Poppendieck realized the Lean principle that was used to improve manufacturing and production could be adapted to fit software development. Since then, organizations have realized Lean can be used in any business or process. A Lean organization understands and focuses on maximizing customer value.however Lean introduces two major concepts: eliminating waste and improving flow. Scrum and Lean both are technique of Agile approach, Scrum's primary goal is on the people, while Lean focuses on the process. I do not understand your statement that: Agile if more than an approach, like Lean.
Regarding applying agile with waterfall based life cycle, I do not understand ! those are different and you can not mix them... Advantages of waterfall model: This model is simple and easy to understand and use. It is easy to manage due to the rigidity of the model and each phase has specific deliverable and a review process. In this model phases are processed and completed one at a time.the waterfall model is a linear sequential (non-iterative) and traditional!
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Nov 21, 2017 2:17 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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It is simple to understand if you go to the basement (USA DoD Agility Forum in 1990) and mainly if you use it in practice, not in theory. So, it has not value for me to continue in this debate because I have said all I have to said. My brief: agile are fully applicable to any type of industry. I have done it and two of those projects have been awarded by the PMI. I am here because I firmly believe that project manager will be not able to add value to organizations if they do not contribute to apply Agile practices into projects/programs/portfolios to gain in agility. I am working on that from the genesis and I am leading my seventh initiative on the field. How can we implement Agile in our personal life and gaining in agility? mainly by open our mind.
I have a very good experience in large EPC and construction projects specially Civil and MEP. On my opinion , PMI is contributing many academic practices for learners to be as PM but in reality and in practice are so different and need to merge many approaches and tools & techniques to manage the project on safe side.
As per my experience, depend on scale of project, 1 million USD, 10 million USD, 100 Million USD and 1 Billion USD are so different from each other and can not compare at all and you can not manage same as waterfall technique...
I was executive in one of JV for 5 billion USD project value, it was so complicated...
I agreed fully with Mr Sante, Prince 2 is more useful for construction project.
As per my experience, very rarely projects ( few percentage ) could complete on time or before deadline in construction field ... it is important that project could be completed with good profit and have added value to organization like increasing equity and use all lesson learns for other new projects... these outcomes shall be useful for stakeholders as well as shareholders to grow up the organization. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Nov 21, 2017 1:34 PM
Replying to Peyman Mokhtarzadeh Sharabiani
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Sergio
In 2003, Mary and Tom Poppendieck realized the Lean principle that was used to improve manufacturing and production could be adapted to fit software development. Since then, organizations have realized Lean can be used in any business or process. A Lean organization understands and focuses on maximizing customer value.however Lean introduces two major concepts: eliminating waste and improving flow. Scrum and Lean both are technique of Agile approach, Scrum's primary goal is on the people, while Lean focuses on the process. I do not understand your statement that: Agile if more than an approach, like Lean.
Regarding applying agile with waterfall based life cycle, I do not understand ! those are different and you can not mix them... Advantages of waterfall model: This model is simple and easy to understand and use. It is easy to manage due to the rigidity of the model and each phase has specific deliverable and a review process. In this model phases are processed and completed one at a time.the waterfall model is a linear sequential (non-iterative) and traditional!
It is simple to understand if you go to the basement (USA DoD Agility Forum in 1990) and mainly if you use it in practice, not in theory. So, it has not value for me to continue in this debate because I have said all I have to said. My brief: agile are fully applicable to any type of industry. I have done it and two of those projects have been awarded by the PMI. I am here because I firmly believe that project manager will be not able to add value to organizations if they do not contribute to apply Agile practices into projects/programs/portfolios to gain in agility. I am working on that from the genesis and I am leading my seventh initiative on the field. How can we implement Agile in our personal life and gaining in agility? mainly by open our mind. Saving Changes...
That's common it seems Peyman. As with most of those mega projects, time/cost blows out a little, and scope remains relatively fixed. Now we've had $1B and $5B construction projects. We should all pack up and work for you guys. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
All
Let me summarize and I know some will not agree.
Agile = agility in business has been around for many years under different names. Sergio has written extensively about this and agility is not limited to software.
Agile = agility practices (whatever the name of practice) can be applied to many projects; small or large but ---- but ---- but NOT AS A PM Methodology. These practices can be applied to ANY methodology you chose or develop for your organization.
Agile = as in Agile Methods DOES NOT apply to all types of projects and definitely NOT in construction and not in capital projects. Agile "Methods" like scrum, are mostly for development of software; although some could be used elsewhere but NOT everywhere.
Lean, Rolling Wave Planning, Integrated Teams, Customer Satisfaction/Communication, and many other practices are NOT Agile-invented practices. These practices have been used by companies with good PM Maturity for decades. Agile (and Agilists) have adopted them but that does not make them Agile Practices, or at least not-agile-invented.
To manage a project, end-to-end, idea to closure, organizations need methods based on project life cycles ---- Agile is NOT those methods. Even in technology-business projects, I am not sure if any can use Agile Methods as a Project Life Cycle (end-to-end). Agile Methods are Development Methods - used in Development Phases of a Project.
Waterfall and Agile:
I think we need to move away from these debates and the arguments (or promotions) of Waterfall vs. Agile. This sounds like you go to a restaurant and you can only have a Soup or a Salad. There are other choices - even in some restaurants, they might allow you to request a special meal.
So what we must do?
Go beyond Waterfall and Agile and understand that PM must be ADAPTIVE - and organizations must build their own customized-adapted-tailored methods.
Thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this thread. Saving Changes...
5 billion project was in railway... Nowadays billion usd projects are over maybe 5-6 years back we could be colleague ... I have 15 projects with total value of 100 million usd approx. now
Mounir
I do not agree that in restaurant to choose from menu for special meal ...
Agile is not practice when you encounter to any problem in execution or planning stage of project then you will use this approach instead of change approach . Agile approach is more effective and useful...If you did pre plan well at initial stage then Waterfall approach can be the best approach with less cost, time saving, less complication, easy monitor and control and definitely achieve the best outcome for project itself and sponsor as well.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Nov 23, 2017 4:29 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Railways are some of the biggest projects around aside from roads. Great stuff Peyman.
5 billion project was in railway... Nowadays billion usd projects are over maybe 5-6 years back we could be colleague ... I have 15 projects with total value of 100 million usd approx. now
Mounir
I do not agree that in restaurant to choose from menu for special meal ...
Agile is not practice when you encounter to any problem in execution or planning stage of project then you will use this approach instead of change approach . Agile approach is more effective and useful...If you did pre plan well at initial stage then Waterfall approach can be the best approach with less cost, time saving, less complication, easy monitor and control and definitely achieve the best outcome for project itself and sponsor as well.
Railways are some of the biggest projects around aside from roads. Great stuff Peyman. Saving Changes...
