Steve RamsdellPM I| BergelectricQueen Creek, Az, United States
I have been in construction for going on 20 years now. From an apprenticeship I rose up to a Project Manager. Going on 3-4years now I have been doing Project Management full time and all my experience in that is from school, classes, online learning, and years of field work.
I have seen in my studies that there are some things I believe would be really effective if utilized in the construction field (e.g. PM styles like agile for instance) but I have yet to see anything really utilized. I know first hand how hard it is to get construction to adapt to change, but I am wondering if it is just my experience or if others have seen what I am saying in that “Project Management in construction” is nothing like what I read and study or seen others doing.
I utilize my toolbox of PM for myself because I wouldn’t know where to start to try to change it, but I am wondering if it is either I have just been on a rough side of an industry that refuses change and hates it in general or if others have seen it as well.
I appreciate the feedback/conversation Saving Changes...
Yes, Stephane I have it. But I would like to see a prime or sub-certification specific to our industry; i.e., "PMI-CMP" - Construction Management Professional. The classes I took in 2011 were filled with IT guys, software developers, insurance carriers, and those within the medical and mass communications field. Steve and I are in the lower 1% I presume! In addition, many HR Generalists within the the construction industry, especially the industrial sector, recognize PMI, but prefer AACE and CCMA certifications.
Gavin,
There is many people in the construction industry with PMP certification. They are just not active, or as active as IT people.
Depending when you made you PMP, in recent years I think there is a big demand from IT industry on PMP. Construction industry is more a steady flow. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Nov 13, 2017 3:34 PM
Replying to Stéphane Parent
...
I suspect you won't see PMI get into industry-specific certifications. All their certifications are currently industry-agnostic.
Plus, I'm hoping the PMI-CMP will be used for Change Management Professional.
Stephane
In theory, you are right.
In practice, I have not me many people outside technology domains getting the PBA, ACP, and even the PgMP and PfMP
For example, PBA and ACP do not make much sense for people in Capital Projects (Oil & Gas, Eng & Const, Power and Utilities) except in their IT departments.
...
1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Nov 14, 2017 8:26 AM
Stéphane Parent
...
Which is unfortunate, Mounir. I realize things don't fit quite as neatly in different industries. We need to take as much responsibility as PMI for making certifications relevant and germane to each and every industry.
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Nov 13, 2017 8:46 PM
Replying to Vincent Guerard
...
Steve,
The construction industry can work using most of Agile principle.
The way you need to do it is not like software with iteration. You can have mock-up, that can be change until the user is satisfied. You can use BIM technology to simulate the building, do virtual visit, make many simulation in a virtual environment.
I was in a large Hospital construction, we use both technique BIM and Mock-up of operating room, patient room, department front desk.... Most of the adjustment/change were made on the mock-up, the important ones.
Vincent
BIM, and other 3D modeling techniques are NOT agile techniques.
...
1 reply by Vincent Guerard
Nov 18, 2017 11:46 AM
Vincent Guerard
...
They are not technique, that is right.
They are tools that let you perform in a more agile way. In construction it is one way to have iteration. You can't contract 3 levels than decide to change the concept and demolish.... so this is the agile way.
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
All
talking about agile sprints in construction is like something I posted on LinkedIn a couple of days ago
I drove 125 KM between two cities - the agile way - 1 km at a time.
Construction packaging, engineering packaging and similar work is not agile. When I read statement like this i tend to think like in the past we move the magic wand and a building is there but now we have agile then we build a building one piece at a time.
It must be nice to be riding the agile train now and label every good practice that we have been doing as an agile practice. I am breathing so i must be using agile
...
1 reply by Steve Ramsdell
Nov 14, 2017 8:13 AM
Steve Ramsdell
...
I am not talking about having a stand up and scrum master. I hope I didn't steer you wrong in my intent. I am noticing a lack of formal/standardized PM principles in my industry, and was wondering if others did.
Personally I utilize tools from agile adapted to myself, job, and situation. If anything I don't believe any industry should use one practice I see them as tool to be utilized when needed. I just don't believe it is utilized in construction is all and was wondering if others noticed.
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Nov 13, 2017 8:57 PM
Replying to Vincent Guerard
...
Gavin,
There is many people in the construction industry with PMP certification. They are just not active, or as active as IT people.
Depending when you made you PMP, in recent years I think there is a big demand from IT industry on PMP. Construction industry is more a steady flow.
As a matter of reality, the PMP has become an IT certifications and even listed in many IT magazines as an IT certification - or ranked highly among IT certification. Outside of IT, less and less people are pursuing the PMP.
...
1 reply by Vincent Guerard
Nov 18, 2017 11:51 AM
Vincent Guerard
...
That is possibly cause by choices at PMI. Leaving the field open to other certification like PRINCE2 in other industry
So maybe PMI is losing it leadership in project management!
Or it is just that IT is recognizing the value of PMP by PMI now.
Hi Steve, I was motivated to get PMP certification from my experiences managing residential renovations.
My sense is that the field of construction is not particularly well-organized according to PMI PMBoK or Agile practice standards and frameworks. My observations are that project management is generally ad hoc, individual, and based on historical norms.
There was a recent article discussing the persistent productivity gap in construction and the burgeoning market for project management software in construction. Construction Drive put out an article describing this issue
In answer to your question, I believe there is a great deal of work that could be done to improve project management practice standards and frameworks, as a combination of at least waterfall and agile techniques, in construction.
In response, I have been working with a contractor of a small residential construction company who is keen to apply project management in his company. We have been developing a product/service package that would make project management software and skill development available to small and medium sized contractors, who normally do not have access to these kind of management approaches.
My feeling is that the productivity gap is found in efforts to apply rigid accounting based methodologies to construction projects, which, despite being governed by plans and schedules, actually give rise to complex phenomena that require daily, minute decision-making that aggregate to either a successful project overall or scope, schedule, budget overruns and quality deficiencies.
...
1 reply by Steve Ramsdell
Nov 14, 2017 8:10 AM
Steve Ramsdell
...
I couldn't agree more, and thank you for giving me your views
Saving Changes...
MARK A ANNUNZIATA, SrVP/EXPERT CONSULTANCY TO THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY| ROMAN STRUCTURES, INC WELLINGTON FLDammam, Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia
Steve-
I really enjoy reading responses from IT Guys about the application of their processes to our Industry.
Unfortunately, they fail to understand the complexity and dangers inherent in our decision making on our Projects. We all deal with serious MAJOR problems on a daily basis (referred to as the daily OH S***) and the environment we practice in is so far removed from the IT workplace.
In my experience, when it is 120-130F outside, I ask myself "did my CM make the best decision based upon the situation, or was his thought process influenced by his extreme exposure?". The Complexity of what we do is not readily explained to the IT guy with a Phd in Process, working in the air conditioned office space, with No Safety risks or Exposures (except for those pesky paper cuts)....
My Opinion.
M
...
1 reply by Steve Ramsdell
Nov 14, 2017 8:15 AM
Steve Ramsdell
...
Amen. I was just explaining I was asking about PM standards/practices as a whole missing from our industry. Not really whether we are riding an agile train or not.
I want to make steps to help my company grow because I think it would help, I initially was curious if it was an industry thing or not if that makes sense
Cmon Mark, those paper cuts can get real nasty ;-)
...
1 reply by MARK A ANNUNZIATA, Sr
Nov 14, 2017 4:55 AM
MARK A ANNUNZIATA, Sr
...
HAHAHA- Good One. This would be really funny if I did not have a real story to back up my statements. In 2014, Our Company had mass communications only on very serious safety related issues, and frequent discussions regarding the Project staff working too many hours- then, one Saturday I opened a mass mailing to all senior managers describing serious copy machine abuses by Senior Engineers in the CEO's office........ My response to the CEO (Mid East Region) was a suggestion to him to employ stricter controls over the Corporate wide e-mails, and I suggested that this ability to mail by his low level (and obviously low IQ) Admins was an insult to the Seriousness of our business. At the time temps for my Site Inspection and QC staff were hovering above 140F and we were all deeply concerned about incurring a major life threatening Incident on our Projects. Copy Machine Ops and hurt feelings was not (nor would it ever be) on the Radar........ Ha!
Saving Changes...
MARK A ANNUNZIATA, SrVP/EXPERT CONSULTANCY TO THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY| ROMAN STRUCTURES, INC WELLINGTON FLDammam, Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia
Nov 14, 2017 12:34 AM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
Cmon Mark, those paper cuts can get real nasty ;-)
HAHAHA- Good One. This would be really funny if I did not have a real story to back up my statements. In 2014, Our Company had mass communications only on very serious safety related issues, and frequent discussions regarding the Project staff working too many hours- then, one Saturday I opened a mass mailing to all senior managers describing serious copy machine abuses by Senior Engineers in the CEO's office........ My response to the CEO (Mid East Region) was a suggestion to him to employ stricter controls over the Corporate wide e-mails, and I suggested that this ability to mail by his low level (and obviously low IQ) Admins was an insult to the Seriousness of our business. At the time temps for my Site Inspection and QC staff were hovering above 140F and we were all deeply concerned about incurring a major life threatening Incident on our Projects. Copy Machine Ops and hurt feelings was not (nor would it ever be) on the Radar........ Ha! Saving Changes...
Steve RamsdellPM I| BergelectricQueen Creek, Az, United States
Nov 12, 2017 6:47 PM
Replying to Gavin Abshire
...
Agreed and very well said Sante. As one with 25 years in the construction industry as both contractor and Owner Representative, I can attest the nature of construction contracts and the performance thereof is extremely rigid where performance parameters and deliverables are set with specific deliverable date; i.e., Design, Bid, Build projects where contractors become involved during the bidding phase or Execution Phase per PMI. Unless there is an opportunity to partake in a Design / Build or Construction Manager at Risk (CMAR) project, involvement during core initiation and planning phases are unavailable. Furthermore, as most construction contracts are DBB in nature, using the "Agile Manefesto", is a pipe dream. The project sponsors are not going to accept a new building, medical facility, or bridge in "incremental deliverables". Typically there is one Substantial Completion and one Final Acceptance for the entire work. When it comes to developing a project management team towards becoming agile in managing change and implementing the change quickly and efficiently, well that's just good management period. With regards to Agile Practices for construction, I doubt it will ever take root. Why? Too many stakeholders would require a mind-reset; Owners, AIA / Engineer, standard contracts (AIA,Conspec,EJCDC,etc.), not to mention the contractors who do it "the way we've always done it"...
No sir, adoption of newer practices or methodologies is a hill most will not be willing to climb. Example, I know contractors who still depend on Project 2007 and fax machines...
This is exactly what I was trying to get at. I believe the same thing. I can see how it would help in a variety of ways, but in construction particularly, I feel as though if nothing else, people don't want to change.
If it worked in the past they don't focus on the best or most efficient, they are reactive to problems instead of proactive, and change seems to come when there is a loss not to gain "more" if that makes sense Saving Changes...
