I do not know if this would be a discussion or a statement but here it is.
The majority of people here resemble PMI membership, IT or maybe to a large degree, service providers or from companies IT departments. Others come from different domains and a few from capital projects (industrial construction).
So, why this post?
The trigger for this post is the numerous discussions that we have here and when we answer, each answer from his or her perspective. These are good exchanges but we must realize the following:
1. What work in one industry or domain does not work in another
2. What work in one organization does not necessarily work in another
3. What work in one culture might not be possible in another
4. Some answers might be wrong or based on misunderstandings
5. What work in an Agile environment might be a recipe for failure in capital projects
Therefore, we must be careful as we discuss project life cycles, estimating, risk. I know many will say we know this - then great since we agree. :) Saving Changes...
Mounir, you placed an interesting statement/ question. From my point of view the answer depends a bit from which level you try to answer. From a very high level PM is an art and systemic process to break compelxity into pieces and how to approach to get the project targets achieved. Each project needs planning, monitoring & control etc. A WBS apllies to capital projects and also to very small project. Same for a charter. When it comes to the tangible things there will be differences, but to me this is not on PM itself, it is more on the topics you mentioned in your statement organization, culture, industry where PM is applied. To me the core pillars of PM are still valid, independ from the industry. Related to your topic 5 I am interested to see Sergio comments. What I can tell you, that I am engaged in a project at a bif german automotive company that established a central "Agile Center of Excellence" for their projects (not only IT). Saving Changes...
This is why "it depends" is the only correct response to most of the project scenario questions asked within this community!
I'm happy that PMI's volunteer teams have started to add tailoring considerations into their standards and guides - they need to add even more "meat" to those sections!
Kiron
Kiron Saving Changes...
Cheikh FAYE Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Expert, CEO and owner| Eurêka TechnologiesDakar, Senegal
My opinoin is that even in the same domain,Project Management can't be uniform because each project is unique as well as the resources,timeframes and all the other means used to achieve it. Project Management is adaptability
to the specifications of each project. Saving Changes...
I totally agree with you Mr.Mounir, that the project management is not uniform across domains, as we are aware that the each project is unique on its nature. However managing projects in similar domain cab be done with east (relatively), as the team gains experience and becomes expert in a particular domain over a period of time.
Please correct me if I misunderstood the concept. ? (I’m new here)
Thank you. Saving Changes...
Your absolutely right in the application many factors would change the "how to do it", I think the basic principle can still apply.
In all case "it depends" like Kiron stated earlier. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Dec 17, 2017 9:59 AM
Replying to Peter Ambrosy
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Mounir, you placed an interesting statement/ question. From my point of view the answer depends a bit from which level you try to answer. From a very high level PM is an art and systemic process to break compelxity into pieces and how to approach to get the project targets achieved. Each project needs planning, monitoring & control etc. A WBS apllies to capital projects and also to very small project. Same for a charter. When it comes to the tangible things there will be differences, but to me this is not on PM itself, it is more on the topics you mentioned in your statement organization, culture, industry where PM is applied. To me the core pillars of PM are still valid, independ from the industry. Related to your topic 5 I am interested to see Sergio comments. What I can tell you, that I am engaged in a project at a bif german automotive company that established a central "Agile Center of Excellence" for their projects (not only IT).
Hi Peter
I agree totally with the first part of your response and partially with the second. Yes, at the highest level all project should be planned, controlled etc. However, here are a few examples of differences behind my post:
1. In client organizations, a discovery phase (concept, feasibility ...) is a must, in the PMI worlds that phase is outside the project life cycle
2. On capital projects (project owner perspective) at least three estimates would be required --- for others one estimate
3. In the IT world, and to a degree PMI as a follower, it appears that the Project Manager is the jack-of-all-trades AND the master, which is not possible or logical
4. The concept of a PMT (PM Team) is almost non-existing outside the capital project industries
5. A charter, an authorization document - most think there is only one charter. True, there is and should be only ONE project charter but every stage/phase must have a formal or semi-formal authorization, which is in line with the purpose of a charter.
6. The concept of project life cycle, is almost non-existent for some practitioners - or to be more accurate, they think the PMBOK Guide / ISO 21500 process groups are the project phases.
7. Estimating: in capital projects, we depend on organizational records and the org maturity, whereas in other industries, assuming there is an estimate, is based on asking people for their estimate of their work. Estimate, in this case, refers to cost or time
I could add more but i think the point is made
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Dec 18, 2017 3:58 AM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Mounir, are you saying that PM teams are virtually non-existant outside capital projects?
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Dec 17, 2017 11:01 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Mounir -
This is why "it depends" is the only correct response to most of the project scenario questions asked within this community!
I'm happy that PMI's volunteer teams have started to add tailoring considerations into their standards and guides - they need to add even more "meat" to those sections!
Kiron
Kiron
Kiron
I agree - all answers must start with it depends - but just watch these discussions, how many responses actually start with those two words?
Also, some people take guides like PMBOK Guide, as the holy book.
So my intention here is to remind everyone that
(1) things depends
(2) not everyone here is an expert
(3) Projects are unique - project management is not unique within a domain but it varies from one domain to another
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Dec 18, 2017 7:56 AM
Kiron Bondale
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Mounir -
This is why I love comparing PM methodologies to organized religions.
The underlying principles of most religions or most PM methodologies are the same, but the codification of those into a methodology/religion and the implementation of the rituals, ceremonies, practices & tools of the methodology/religion is where trouble often begins.
I've run into some folks who say, there is only one project management authority, and that's PMI :-).
Kiron
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Dec 17, 2017 11:29 AM
Replying to Cheikh FAYE
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My opinoin is that even in the same domain,Project Management can't be uniform because each project is unique as well as the resources,timeframes and all the other means used to achieve it. Project Management is adaptability
to the specifications of each project.
Cheikh
Partially agree with you ... I think PMI is helping with the confusion on PM being unique.
Projects are unique
Project Management is NOT unique within a domain
For example, if you are a company that builds software or building - why would your project management methodology be different; ------- within the domain?
Yes PM must be adaptive ---- across domain and types Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Dec 17, 2017 3:42 PM
Replying to RAVICHANDRAN MEENAKSHI SUNDARAM
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I totally agree with you Mr.Mounir, that the project management is not uniform across domains, as we are aware that the each project is unique on its nature. However managing projects in similar domain cab be done with east (relatively), as the team gains experience and becomes expert in a particular domain over a period of time.
Please correct me if I misunderstood the concept. ? (I’m new here)
Thank you.
Mr. Ravichandran
The image that has been sold to us (an emphasized in the 6th ed of the PMBOK Guide) is that the project manager is the key.
Yet, many fail to see that project management is about people-process-tools. So yes, the experience of the team is important but without process, the best people could fail.
Here is a scenario. I have 33 years of PM experience working on projects even mega (billion of US$) yet. When I managed my first writing a book project, I failed to meet the original objectives - why, because my organization did not have a process or knowledge base for these types of projects.
To summarize, the key is the organizational project management system --- first and foremost. An OPMS must include:
(1) methodologies - tailored to a type of project by the Org not the Project Manager
(2) other processes, policies, procedures, governance structure, etc.
(3) organizational knowledge base (including historical data, lessons learned, project info)
All of the above are needed before we manage a single project. If we have the above, we can train any team to manage projects Saving Changes...
