There are advantages and disadvantages to unions. However, while there is a number of organizations that can discipline projects managers, PMI being one of them, are there any unions that can or should be created to protect the interests of project managers? Saving Changes...
Mounir, firstly I later said that "it could be an association, as long as they were project manager advocates, not project management advocates", so it may not have to be a union. Secondly, this is not about PMI, this is about project managers being represented at not only PMI, but other qualification bodies, places of employment, perhaps even legally. Regarding how PMI and other qualification bodies discipline: they can do so by taking away a certification based on alleged misconduct. What I am saying is there is no counter balance for action, and I don't to the view that one can vote with their wallet as Kiron stated, as there are only a handful of institutions that certify PM's and once someone has invested years and money into a certification, it is not a viable option to let the certification go and join another certification body. It could be a question of livelihood in some cases. Saving Changes...
James MatlockOther| Dresser-RandFort Collins, Co, United States
All - I see only benefits of there being a PM union. Throughout my career I have worked extra hours without compensation and had an overall feeling I do more than is appreciated or compensated for by all the various employers I have worked for. A union would offer us PM's a form of united protection so we can have stronger negotiating power to be paid for extra hours worked, lower employee turnover, improved workplace communication, and a better-trained workforce for our employers. For us who are a part of PMI and PMP's we have been trained, that is not the case for all folks performing PM roles in the world today.
All - I see only benefits of there being a PM union. Throughout my career I have worked extra hours without compensation and had an overall feeling I do more than is appreciated or compensated for by all the various employers I have worked for. A union would offer us PM's a form of united protection so we can have stronger negotiating power to be paid for extra hours worked, lower employee turnover, improved workplace communication, and a better-trained workforce for our employers. For us who are a part of PMI and PMP's we have been trained, that is not the case for all folks performing PM roles in the world today.
Well said James. Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Sante,
maybe there is a problem, but I doubt that Unions are a suitable solution. Unions are constructs supported by national legislation, which differ significantly globally and are suppressed or inhibited in their power in many countries. 65% of countries do not allow unions. Slavery is still existent.
Unions in Germany are legally defined as partners for employer groups along an industry sector or a professional group for example services (Verdi), metal (IG Metall) or - quite new - Youtubers Union.
I would see fit if PMs would join Verdi with 2 million members (and some do) to let them negotiate their working conditions, like they do for consultants, social workers, and other service oriented professions.
PMI could be positioned to establish a global agent for project managers, for that they probably need to adapt their purpose, mission and strategy. One way in my view could be to extend the code of ethics to organizations and individuals who did not sign up to adhere to the code. Bold but possible.
Thomas Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Unions are there to offset unbalanced power distribution between employers and employees. These power distributions differ across jurisdictions with different legal frameworks for employers.
In my years as a professional project manager, I never felt like I had insufficient power when negotiating with my employer. And, no, I was not unionized for the last twenty years.
Is the supply of project managers larger than the demand? Then, perhaps, a union can balance the power distribution. If not, we probably individually hold sufficient power to negotiate satisfactorily with different employers. Saving Changes...
Over the past decade or so I have mainly dealt with remote teams and project managers from India and the Philippines. There is definitely unbalanced power distribution in both countries. Individuals rarely stand up in collectivist societies. A union might help.
...
1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jan 25, 2022 5:51 PM
Stéphane Parent
...
But if the society is collectivist, won't that collectivity, rather than union, support the employees?
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jan 25, 2022 5:37 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
Over the past decade or so I have mainly dealt with remote teams and project managers from India and the Philippines. There is definitely unbalanced power distribution in both countries. Individuals rarely stand up in collectivist societies. A union might help.
But if the society is collectivist, won't that collectivity, rather than union, support the employees?
...
1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Jan 25, 2022 7:05 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
When it comes to families yes, not when it comes to employment, as the class system dominates. Society is an abstract concept with no power to represent any group. The other issue is that individuals in these societies generally toe the line, and respect or at least obey power/authority. That is not a formula for power distribution.
But if the society is collectivist, won't that collectivity, rather than union, support the employees?
When it comes to families yes, not when it comes to employment, as the class system dominates. Society is an abstract concept with no power to represent any group. The other issue is that individuals in these societies generally toe the line, and respect or at least obey power/authority. That is not a formula for power distribution.
...
1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jan 26, 2022 8:10 AM
Stéphane Parent
...
By definition, project managers are given a certain level of power, along with accountability, associated with their project. Where do professional project managers fit in those cultures?
The pros and cons certainly vary based on the culture of the business environment, and the culture of the union.
In my own personal experience, the downside to a professional union can be to stifle career advancement. While they prevent people from unfair treatment, they sometimes prevent meaningful rewards for higher performers as well.
As a represented member, you can't renegotiate your own contract. To get ahead faster, you may need to change employers or move into management where you get a new contract. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jan 25, 2022 7:05 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
When it comes to families yes, not when it comes to employment, as the class system dominates. Society is an abstract concept with no power to represent any group. The other issue is that individuals in these societies generally toe the line, and respect or at least obey power/authority. That is not a formula for power distribution.
By definition, project managers are given a certain level of power, along with accountability, associated with their project. Where do professional project managers fit in those cultures? Saving Changes...
