Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Rosemary,
As far as I am aware, if you satisfied all requirements especially those of the triangle then no you do not need to.
Under education there is a minimum number of PDU’s required but no maximum while under Giving Back, there is a maximum which means if you claim all your 60 PDU’s under education, that should be fine. That’s how I understand it.
RK
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1 reply by Rosemary Wright
Feb 15, 2018 1:22 AM
Rosemary Wright
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Thanks -- yes another responder mentioned section in PDU handbook saying "giving back" was optional. I had always held leadership positions with PMI so my "giving back" was taken care of. I fortunately have satisfied the triangular requirements! Cheers.
Saving Changes...
Anish AbrahamPrivacy Program Manager| University of WashingtonAuburn, Wa, United States
I agree with Rami on this.
Please check the CCR handbook for more details
This is one of my pet peeves that PMI does not insist on a bare minimum of Giving Back PDUs. This is why some folks earn the PMP and then continue to recertify even if they are no longer doing anything remotely related to project management...
Kiron
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2 replies by Rosemary Wright and Vincent Guerard
Feb 14, 2018 9:13 AM
Vincent Guerard
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Kiron,
I like the idea of Giving Back PDUs.
To make it mandatory would require to refine the definition and how many PDUs are mandatory is it 1, 5 ...
Are their any profession/certification that require Giving Back? just curious here.
Agree that many barely maintain their knowledge.
Nice discussion
Feb 15, 2018 1:24 AM
Rosemary Wright
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I usually have an abundance of leadership "giving back" with PMI -- so I agree. I'm getting re-assigned now and will continue to "give back".
Saving Changes...
Drew CraigSr. Agile & Product Coach| VanguardPhiladelphia, Pa, United States
No, giving back PDU's are not required to cycle. Simply satisfy all required PDU's from each segment of the triangle - technical, strategic, leadership.
It is a good idea to review the CCR information. Provides a good overall sense of what is needed and some other avenues of earning PDU's for submission Saving Changes...
It's not required. However I have to disagree with my good colleague Kiron on this one. While giving back is certainly important, and I encourage it of course, I don't believe it should be mandatory.
Giving back is voluntary and while telling everyone about your voluntary experience might be good for the resume or profiles, I'm one of those believers that it should not be rewarded even if it is recognized.
Now having said that, if giving back was a paid engagement, such as training others, then it would be different. The waters do get a little muddy when mentoring someone, because this is usually done through a paid job anyway, so you are just spending some time mentoring someone on the employer's dime. So in this case it may be ok (in my opinion) to claim PDU's.
But to be clear, when it comes to voluntary work for say charities, social programs or even to help the local school out, if it is 1. voluntary and 2. not paid or related to payment (ie. my example about mentoring while in a paid job), I don't agree this should be rewarded.
Now, some may say ok then those people can claim for training and mentoring. Fine, but what about those that only have some voluntary/unpaid work to claim as PDU's? Well I feel they should not be mandated to claim PDU's if they don't want to be rewarded or even recognized for their voluntary work.
In short, for me voluntary means no reward of any kind other than the enjoyment or satisfaction of volunteering and helping someone or some group.
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Feb 13, 2018 5:32 PM
Kiron Bondale
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Sante -
Don't get me wrong - I'm not insisting on folks actually giving back to the profession as that is a very personal choice, but I would like participation in the profession of some form and PMI covers that with this category - volunteering and contributing content is one way, but so is working as a PM.
My issue is that I know of some folks who got their PMP credentials years ago, haven't managed any projects since then nor have they taught or contributed to the profession and they continue to recertify purely by taking courses or attending conferences.
It's not required. However I have to disagree with my good colleague Kiron on this one. While giving back is certainly important, and I encourage it of course, I don't believe it should be mandatory.
Giving back is voluntary and while telling everyone about your voluntary experience might be good for the resume or profiles, I'm one of those believers that it should not be rewarded even if it is recognized.
Now having said that, if giving back was a paid engagement, such as training others, then it would be different. The waters do get a little muddy when mentoring someone, because this is usually done through a paid job anyway, so you are just spending some time mentoring someone on the employer's dime. So in this case it may be ok (in my opinion) to claim PDU's.
But to be clear, when it comes to voluntary work for say charities, social programs or even to help the local school out, if it is 1. voluntary and 2. not paid or related to payment (ie. my example about mentoring while in a paid job), I don't agree this should be rewarded.
Now, some may say ok then those people can claim for training and mentoring. Fine, but what about those that only have some voluntary/unpaid work to claim as PDU's? Well I feel they should not be mandated to claim PDU's if they don't want to be rewarded or even recognized for their voluntary work.
In short, for me voluntary means no reward of any kind other than the enjoyment or satisfaction of volunteering and helping someone or some group.
Sante -
Don't get me wrong - I'm not insisting on folks actually giving back to the profession as that is a very personal choice, but I would like participation in the profession of some form and PMI covers that with this category - volunteering and contributing content is one way, but so is working as a PM.
My issue is that I know of some folks who got their PMP credentials years ago, haven't managed any projects since then nor have they taught or contributed to the profession and they continue to recertify purely by taking courses or attending conferences.
Kiron
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Feb 13, 2018 5:55 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Thanks Kiron, yes I understand. Maybe in that example they can do it, but not sure how they would manage it other than asking people if they are still working or how long they have not been working. It is muddy waters when it comes to training and mentoring, perhaps that can be part of mandatory giving back that qualify's for PDU's, I can swallow that. But it's just the voluntary stuff associated with charities or NGO's etc and related to working on projects, moreso than training/mentoring. A sensitive topic and one that doesn't have a clear resolution. Thanks for your clarification.
Well I totally agree with Sante on this point that it should not be mandated or counted for as compulsory requirements I think it is there for voluntary and we actually don't want more restrictions and hurdles.
For Kiron I would say for example if you don't drive for two or three years will you forget driving? Do you want MOT to strip your driving license and then after three years start again from learner till you reach your level in your previous license for another three years and pay insurance as learner? just a thought so I don't think that we should expect every PM standing out side watching pouring concrete for foundation. You might be working as functional manager but the knowledge and tools and techniques are still there to be used. for example quality tools are not for projects only they are used on almost every where in operation, production and maintenance. I know you are heavily involved but think of others who don't get the chance to work on typical project. I guess this time we give credit to Sante Saving Changes...
Don't get me wrong - I'm not insisting on folks actually giving back to the profession as that is a very personal choice, but I would like participation in the profession of some form and PMI covers that with this category - volunteering and contributing content is one way, but so is working as a PM.
My issue is that I know of some folks who got their PMP credentials years ago, haven't managed any projects since then nor have they taught or contributed to the profession and they continue to recertify purely by taking courses or attending conferences.
Kiron
Thanks Kiron, yes I understand. Maybe in that example they can do it, but not sure how they would manage it other than asking people if they are still working or how long they have not been working. It is muddy waters when it comes to training and mentoring, perhaps that can be part of mandatory giving back that qualify's for PDU's, I can swallow that. But it's just the voluntary stuff associated with charities or NGO's etc and related to working on projects, moreso than training/mentoring. A sensitive topic and one that doesn't have a clear resolution. Thanks for your clarification. Saving Changes...
I would like to add to Kiron notes with all due respect you mentioned about those who take courses and attend seminars etc so it is still education towards the profession at some point they might be able to teach theories of project management this remind me of my professor in university who taught me the requirements must be met in order to synchronize number of generators to run in parallel but when he visited me after many years I was in charge of power house running generators for private mill I offered him to synchronize the fifth generator as it was under maintenance he couldn't time the dial and when he close the breaker he caused the power to fluctuate and was going to trip the whole plant but I interfered immediately and opened the breaker and then waited till all conditions met then I closed it smoothly. this is a true story but does it mean that he don't know what needs to synchronize of course not he has all theories but lacking confidence in practical field so there are more people good at teaching project management but may not be able to handle the project so we let them live as well. Thanks Kiron for your understanding and your big heart
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Feb 13, 2018 6:36 PM
Kiron Bondale
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Riyadh -
You are right that it is a grey area, and project management is used in a variety of non-PM roles.
Many other professional credentials do require "some" actual experience to be demonstrated to retain one's standing and given that we are talking about a three year time-box, it should be possible to show a minimum amount to ensure that there is the right balance between practice & theory.
I suppose one could say that the renewal fee itself acts as a natural deterrent for those who are clearly disconnected from the profession. I do know of a couple of folks who earned their PMP and then purposely let it expire after one or two recertification cycles when they consciously decided to exit the profession and had no expectations of re-entering it.
The essence of healthy discourse is the ability to acknowledge & respect each other's views even when they differ on a topic so I'm happy to have generated some lively discussion with mine :-)
I would like to add to Kiron notes with all due respect you mentioned about those who take courses and attend seminars etc so it is still education towards the profession at some point they might be able to teach theories of project management this remind me of my professor in university who taught me the requirements must be met in order to synchronize number of generators to run in parallel but when he visited me after many years I was in charge of power house running generators for private mill I offered him to synchronize the fifth generator as it was under maintenance he couldn't time the dial and when he close the breaker he caused the power to fluctuate and was going to trip the whole plant but I interfered immediately and opened the breaker and then waited till all conditions met then I closed it smoothly. this is a true story but does it mean that he don't know what needs to synchronize of course not he has all theories but lacking confidence in practical field so there are more people good at teaching project management but may not be able to handle the project so we let them live as well. Thanks Kiron for your understanding and your big heart
Riyadh -
You are right that it is a grey area, and project management is used in a variety of non-PM roles.
Many other professional credentials do require "some" actual experience to be demonstrated to retain one's standing and given that we are talking about a three year time-box, it should be possible to show a minimum amount to ensure that there is the right balance between practice & theory.
I suppose one could say that the renewal fee itself acts as a natural deterrent for those who are clearly disconnected from the profession. I do know of a couple of folks who earned their PMP and then purposely let it expire after one or two recertification cycles when they consciously decided to exit the profession and had no expectations of re-entering it.
The essence of healthy discourse is the ability to acknowledge & respect each other's views even when they differ on a topic so I'm happy to have generated some lively discussion with mine :-)
Kiron
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1 reply by Riyadh Salih
Feb 13, 2018 7:33 PM
Riyadh Salih
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That's right Kiron likewise this is the healthy discussion when you have positive arguments for the purpose of improving and exchanging view points not negative arguments for the sake of arguments.
I am proud of our colleagues and permanent contributors all are educated and have a level of tolerance.
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