Farhad AbdollahyanManaging Director| Cyrus Associados Apoio em ProjetosSao Paulo, Sp, Brazil
Given that PM's manage a temporary initiative - a project - that may not coincide with the benefit realisation life cycle, what is really the role of PM? Saving Changes...
Si j'ai bien compris, le chef de projet doit délivrer une certaine capacité ou actif et leurs bénéfices viendront après, donc il n'aura aucun rôle à jouer dans la realisation de ces bénéfices, c'est ça?
This is the same message posted initially in French. Generated by Google translate better then using the TRANSLATE at the bottom of the screen.
Farhad,
It's a way to see it. In my opinion the PM has a role in the realization, if it does not deliver a project that allows the realization of the profits, it is a first problem. Then there is the transfer, training, documentation, etc. that will allow the achievement of objectives.
The PM is responsible for more than the delivery of a box that will make the profits. In a narrow interpretation of project management, the project ends upon delivery or closure of the project object.
In some industries whose construction, there are two stages in the end of the project. A first provisional acceptance and the final, between the two a validation of obtaining a product that corresponds to the contract. In this context the PM must ensure the realization of benefits.
In every industry similar measures exist.
During the implementation of the project, the PM must inform the stakeholders of the potential achievement of the project objectives. The PM therefore has an important role in the realization of the benefits Saving Changes...
En fait, le document considère que les responsabilités de realisation des bénéfices sont attribuables aux propriétaires des bénéfices ou des affaires:
"Benefits or Business Owner - Takes overall responsibility for monitoring and measuring benefits and ensuring they are achieved." (Page 13).
Saving Changes...
Farhad AbdollahyanManaging Director| Cyrus Associados Apoio em ProjetosSao Paulo, Sp, Brazil
Feb 15, 2018 10:03 PM
Replying to Farhad Abdollahyan
...
Cher Vincent,
Si j'ai bien compris, le chef de projet doit délivrer une certaine capacité ou actif et leurs bénéfices viendront après, donc il n'aura aucun rôle à jouer dans la realisation de ces bénéfices, c'est ça?
Cher Vincent,
Très bonnes idées en ce qui concerne l'étape de transition. Je suis aussi d'accord que le chef de projet soit responsable et redevable de la qualité des produits (les livrables) qui doivent être en mesure de realiser les bénéfices selon les exigences (requirements) des clients/usagers.
Dans la Metodologie PRINCE2® le rôle de definir aussi bien des exigences que des bénéfices est octroyé à l'Utilisateur Principal (Senior User) qui est aussi membre de comitê de Pilotage de projet et pas au Chef de Projeto qui se responsabilise pela qualité de livraison.
"L'Utilisateur Principal:
Ses responsabilités sont les suivantes:
Spécifier les besoins (exigences) de ceux qui utiliseront les produits du projet.
Faire la liaison entre l'Equipe de Management de Projet et les Utilisateurs.
S'assurer que la solution remplit les critères et exigences des Utilisateurs, spécifiquement en terme de qualité et de facilité d'usage."
Fournir les informations nécessaires pour le Plan de Revue des Bénéfices.
Sources: http://fr.prince2.wiki/Organisation
qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Feb 16, 2018 2:25 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
PRINCE2 and PMI are not matter of comparison. PRINCE2 is a mehod, it prescribes in favor of a method. PMI is a guide to create your own method. So, sorry but we can not compare both. In fact, the project life cycle in PRINCE2 is boarder than you can define if you took the PMBOK Guide and follow it.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Feb 16, 2018 2:16 PM
Replying to Farhad Abdollahyan
...
Cher Vincent,
Très bonnes idées en ce qui concerne l'étape de transition. Je suis aussi d'accord que le chef de projet soit responsable et redevable de la qualité des produits (les livrables) qui doivent être en mesure de realiser les bénéfices selon les exigences (requirements) des clients/usagers.
Dans la Metodologie PRINCE2® le rôle de definir aussi bien des exigences que des bénéfices est octroyé à l'Utilisateur Principal (Senior User) qui est aussi membre de comitê de Pilotage de projet et pas au Chef de Projeto qui se responsabilise pela qualité de livraison.
"L'Utilisateur Principal:
Ses responsabilités sont les suivantes:
Spécifier les besoins (exigences) de ceux qui utiliseront les produits du projet.
Faire la liaison entre l'Equipe de Management de Projet et les Utilisateurs.
S'assurer que la solution remplit les critères et exigences des Utilisateurs, spécifiquement en terme de qualité et de facilité d'usage."
Fournir les informations nécessaires pour le Plan de Revue des Bénéfices.
Sources: http://fr.prince2.wiki/Organisation
qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?
PRINCE2 and PMI are not matter of comparison. PRINCE2 is a mehod, it prescribes in favor of a method. PMI is a guide to create your own method. So, sorry but we can not compare both. In fact, the project life cycle in PRINCE2 is boarder than you can define if you took the PMBOK Guide and follow it.
...
1 reply by Farhad Abdollahyan
Feb 16, 2018 3:15 PM
Farhad Abdollahyan
...
Dear Sergio,
I did not suggest to compare a PMBOK® Guide to PRINCE2® which is a methodology.
But the role of the project manager relating to Benefit Realisation can be compared.
If you read the chapter - 3 THE ROLE OF PROJECT MANGER (pages 51-68) you will not find anything about PM's responsibilities in Benefits Realisation, same applies to PRINCE2® theme on Organisation in which the PM Role is defined.
The PMBOK® Guide does not define other roles responsible for defining and managing project benefits (it is out of the scope of the standard) but PRINCE2® does - Senior User - with clear Benefit Management resposibilities.
Regarding business documents (Business case and Project Benefits Management Plan, the PMBOK® Guide states that "The project manager needs to ensure that the project management approach captures the intent of business documents… These two documents are interdependent and iteratively developed and maintained throughout the life cycle of the project." So he is not the owner of these documents.
In Chapter 4 of the PMBOK® Guide (page 73) under the heading "Expanding the project manager’s responsibilities" in the tailoring section, you find:
"Project managers are being called on to initiate and finalize?the project, such as project business case development and benefits management. Historically, these activities have been the responsibility of management and the project management office, but project managers are more?frequently collaborating with them to better meet project objectives and deliver benefits. Project managers are?a ls engaging in more comprehensive identification and engagement of stakeholders. This includes managing?the interfaces with various functional and operational departments and senior management personnel." Does not mention the Benefits Realisation, though.
If you look further in the same chapter at closing process the Role of the PM, concerning benefit realisation, is limited to express in the final report: "Schedule objectives including whether results achieved the benefits that the project was undertaken to address.?If the benefits are not met at the close of the project, indicate the degree to which they were achieved and estimate for future benefits realization." (PMI, 2017, page 128)
Saving Changes...
Farhad AbdollahyanManaging Director| Cyrus Associados Apoio em ProjetosSao Paulo, Sp, Brazil
Feb 16, 2018 12:30 AM
Replying to Najam Mumtaz
...
With the evolution of projects to meet customer demands, projects are now being assessed on the successful delivery of benefits for which the project was initiated instead of traditional measures of time, cost, and scope. With the changing demands of projects towards benefit realization the project manager has become a key component of benefit realization management.
Dear Najam,
Good thoughts, however, since the project manager's role traditionally is only to deliver the solution and disband his team once the products are accepted and/or commissioned, then there is a problem managing the realisation of the remaining benefits (those which only using/operation the solution will bring).
The PRINCE2® method gives the role of defining requirements as well as the expected benefits to Senior User and his staff (coming from client/user organisation).
The Senior User
The Senior User has the following responsibilities:
- To specify the needs (requirements) of the Users that will use the project products.
- To liaise between the Project Management Team and the Users.
- To make sure the solution will meet the needs of the Users, especially in terms of quality and ease of use, and against requirements.
- To supply the benefits information for the Benefits Review Plan.
What are your thoughts about this approach? Saving Changes...
Farhad AbdollahyanManaging Director| Cyrus Associados Apoio em ProjetosSao Paulo, Sp, Brazil
Feb 16, 2018 9:07 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
I fully agree with you Kiron. My point is: benefits are achieved by the solution where solution is equal to "the process" to create the product/service/result PLUS "the thing" to create. "the operation was successful but the patient is dead" does not applies in project management. Why? Because a project is not successful if does not achieve the expected quality in the estimated cost and in needed time. The project manager must be on charge of assure that. It is all she/he can do because the project manager scope of work. But to determine all these things somebody must help the organization in defining "the thing" and it is the business analyst. In the case of a surgery the surgeon performs business analysis and project management.
Good thoughts, however, since the project manager's role traditionally is only to deliver the solution and disband his team once the products are accepted and/or commissioned, then there is a problem managing the realisation of the remaining benefits (those which only using/operation the solution will bring).
The PRINCE2® method gives the role of defining requirements as well as the expected benefits to Senior User and his staff (coming from client/user organisation).
The Senior User
The Senior User has the following responsibilities:
- To specify the needs (requirements) of the Users that will use the project products.
- To liaise between the Project Management Team and the Users.
- To make sure the solution will meet the needs of the Users, especially in terms of quality and ease of use, and against requirements.
- To supply the benefits information for the Benefits Review Plan.
That is the point. Is not a project manager responsability. Is a business analyst responsability. That is because the PMI has created the new business analysis guide. If you check it you will see that business analyst work starts before a project exists (is accountable for all work related to create a business case) and continue before the project ends (is accountable for assuring that expected benefits stated on business case are achieving). It is not new. Business analyst role is there from 1990. I was part of the group that created the role and all related documentation. Before 2010 the only organization that worked on that was the IIBA. From 2010 the PMI took the role too and I was part of the process to create PMI´s business analysis standards and practice guides too.
Saving Changes...
Farhad AbdollahyanManaging Director| Cyrus Associados Apoio em ProjetosSao Paulo, Sp, Brazil
Feb 16, 2018 8:42 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
...
Farhad -
At the risk of disagreeing with some of the esteemed virtual colleagues whom I usually align with, I would say that a PM should do their utmost to ensure that benefits will be realized to avoid the "operation was a success but the patient died" scenario.
This means that they should push for things like:
- articulation of quantitative benefits, an operational definition for measuring those, and a baseline of current state
- identification of benefits owners and ensuring those owners are living up to their responsibilities
- calling out risks which affect the expected benefits
- having the courage to propose cancelling the project if sufficient benefits won't be realized
I've worked for too many companies where benefits management was left solely to business owners and seen the mediocre results...
Plus, such involvement is a great profile boost for a PM as it shows their strategic abilities and such visibility could help them move into a business leadership role if that is on their career roadmap.
Kiron
I like your approach of a shared responsibility with beneficiaries, since the project manager's role traditionally is only to deliver the solution and disband his team once the products are accepted and/or commissioned, then there is a problem managing the realisation of the remaining benefits (those which only using/operation the solution will bring).
The PRINCE2® method gives the role of defining requirements as well as the expected benefits to Senior User and his staff (coming from client/user organisation).
The Senior User
The Senior User has the following responsibilities:
- To specify the needs (requirements) of the Users that will use the project products.
- To liaise between the Project Management Team and the Users.
- To make sure the solution will meet the needs of the Users, especially in terms of quality and ease of use, and against requirements.
- To supply the benefits information for the Benefits Review Plan.
it still feels that the PM is in somewhat of a passive mode whereas the best PMs I've worked with truly embrace the business case and are vigilant to anything which might improve or negative impact business value realization.
I do agree with Sergio that when you have a qualified, capable BA working with the PM, then the PM can follow the BA's guidance, but given that this is not always the case, the PM should take responsibility for pushing his/her business partners to "do the right thing".
Kiron
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Feb 16, 2018 2:26 PM
Replying to Farhad Abdollahyan
...
Good thoughts, however, since the project manager's role traditionally is only to deliver the solution and disband his team once the products are accepted and/or commissioned, then there is a problem managing the realisation of the remaining benefits (those which only using/operation the solution will bring).
The PRINCE2® method gives the role of defining requirements as well as the expected benefits to Senior User and his staff (coming from client/user organisation).
The Senior User
The Senior User has the following responsibilities:
- To specify the needs (requirements) of the Users that will use the project products.
- To liaise between the Project Management Team and the Users.
- To make sure the solution will meet the needs of the Users, especially in terms of quality and ease of use, and against requirements.
- To supply the benefits information for the Benefits Review Plan.
That is the point. Is not a project manager responsability. Is a business analyst responsability. That is because the PMI has created the new business analysis guide. If you check it you will see that business analyst work starts before a project exists (is accountable for all work related to create a business case) and continue before the project ends (is accountable for assuring that expected benefits stated on business case are achieving). It is not new. Business analyst role is there from 1990. I was part of the group that created the role and all related documentation. Before 2010 the only organization that worked on that was the IIBA. From 2010 the PMI took the role too and I was part of the process to create PMI´s business analysis standards and practice guides too. Saving Changes...
I like your approach of a shared responsibility with beneficiaries, since the project manager's role traditionally is only to deliver the solution and disband his team once the products are accepted and/or commissioned, then there is a problem managing the realisation of the remaining benefits (those which only using/operation the solution will bring).
The PRINCE2® method gives the role of defining requirements as well as the expected benefits to Senior User and his staff (coming from client/user organisation).
The Senior User
The Senior User has the following responsibilities:
- To specify the needs (requirements) of the Users that will use the project products.
- To liaise between the Project Management Team and the Users.
- To make sure the solution will meet the needs of the Users, especially in terms of quality and ease of use, and against requirements.
- To supply the benefits information for the Benefits Review Plan.
it still feels that the PM is in somewhat of a passive mode whereas the best PMs I've worked with truly embrace the business case and are vigilant to anything which might improve or negative impact business value realization.
I do agree with Sergio that when you have a qualified, capable BA working with the PM, then the PM can follow the BA's guidance, but given that this is not always the case, the PM should take responsibility for pushing his/her business partners to "do the right thing".
Kiron Saving Changes...
Farhad AbdollahyanManaging Director| Cyrus Associados Apoio em ProjetosSao Paulo, Sp, Brazil
Feb 16, 2018 2:25 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
PRINCE2 and PMI are not matter of comparison. PRINCE2 is a mehod, it prescribes in favor of a method. PMI is a guide to create your own method. So, sorry but we can not compare both. In fact, the project life cycle in PRINCE2 is boarder than you can define if you took the PMBOK Guide and follow it.
Dear Sergio,
I did not suggest to compare a PMBOK® Guide to PRINCE2® which is a methodology.
But the role of the project manager relating to Benefit Realisation can be compared.
If you read the chapter - 3 THE ROLE OF PROJECT MANGER (pages 51-68) you will not find anything about PM's responsibilities in Benefits Realisation, same applies to PRINCE2® theme on Organisation in which the PM Role is defined.
The PMBOK® Guide does not define other roles responsible for defining and managing project benefits (it is out of the scope of the standard) but PRINCE2® does - Senior User - with clear Benefit Management resposibilities.
Regarding business documents (Business case and Project Benefits Management Plan, the PMBOK® Guide states that "The project manager needs to ensure that the project management approach captures the intent of business documents… These two documents are interdependent and iteratively developed and maintained throughout the life cycle of the project." So he is not the owner of these documents.
In Chapter 4 of the PMBOK® Guide (page 73) under the heading "Expanding the project manager’s responsibilities" in the tailoring section, you find:
"Project managers are being called on to initiate and finalize?the project, such as project business case development and benefits management. Historically, these activities have been the responsibility of management and the project management office, but project managers are more?frequently collaborating with them to better meet project objectives and deliver benefits. Project managers are?a ls engaging in more comprehensive identification and engagement of stakeholders. This includes managing?the interfaces with various functional and operational departments and senior management personnel." Does not mention the Benefits Realisation, though.
If you look further in the same chapter at closing process the Role of the PM, concerning benefit realisation, is limited to express in the final report: "Schedule objectives including whether results achieved the benefits that the project was undertaken to address.?If the benefits are not met at the close of the project, indicate the degree to which they were achieved and estimate for future benefits realization." (PMI, 2017, page 128) Saving Changes...
