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PMI Audits may be random, but are they fair?

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Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD Senior Project Manager| Infosys Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
These are in fact two very different things. Randomness does not equate to fairness. I have just applied for the PMI-ACP exam and have been selected for an audit. To date, I have been audited two times, for two exams. That's a 100% batting average. My issue is not related to the necessity of an audit; in that regard I totally agree. My issue is not with the randomness of the audit; how else to select a section of exam aspirants without exhibiting bias. My issue is however with the fact that some people can get multiple audits and others can get zero audits for several exams. This in my view is the definition of unfair. If PMI "must ensure that practitioners who obtain the certifications have met requirements that reflect the evolving profession" in order to "maintain the integrity of its certifications", then all well and good. But why not alter the algorithm to at least audit someone who has never been audited, rather than audit someone twice, or worse, two for two? How far can "randomness" go? Perhaps audit three out of three exam applications for the same individual, while someone else sits multiple exams with zero audits? With around 1 million PMI certified professionals, what are the statistical odds of getting audited three out of three times? I guess I will find out if I ever brave a third certification!
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Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD Senior Project Manager| Infosys Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Mar 10, 2018 6:33 PM
Replying to Drew Craig
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Hey, no one ever said that they are a modern organization run by hipsters :) It's likely, as with, many other organizations, they are struggling with legacy, disparate systems. It's, unfortunately, the nature of the beast. I'm sure you are well equipped to handle the audit with a quickness. Don't let it get to you (maybe I'm too late). You do your thing, while they do theirs.
Thanks Andrew, as Serendipity would have it, I anticipated Murphy's Law and verified that my references were available just in case, and as soon as I got pinged for an audit, I downloaded the papers and sent it to them within an hour to get their signatures, and will receive their signed forms inside 48 hours priority express, fingers crossed. Then I have to send that whole package to the US because PMI doesn't like the references to mail them directly, which in fact would save a lot of time. Another process flaw related to speed even if it is more efficient for them. One day I will write at more length about this experience, especially since I am seriously thinking of applying for a third certification (which I also qualify for) just for the hell of it. If I get popped three out of three times, then I may just swing from advocate to antagonist, and a damning blog will be just the beginning lol. Time will tell on that one...
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1 reply by Drew Craig
Mar 11, 2018 11:10 AM
Drew Craig
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“One day I will write at more length about this experience...”

lol :D
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Najam Mumtaz Retired Lahore, Punjab, Pakistan
Sante, I understand that it's frustrating with the deadline looming and even more as you can not reserve a date for exam before PMI's audit is over and there would be a lot of people trying to get the exam day reserve before 26th Mar.
I wish you best of luck with the exam and I am confident that with your knowledge base it would be walk in the park to get through the exam.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Mar 10, 2018 11:41 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Thanks Najam, fingers crossed.
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Amir Hamzah Dazalan Shah Alam, Selangor, Malaysia
Mar 10, 2018 8:24 AM
Replying to Drew Craig
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As you pointed out, it is not the random nature of the audit, but what is done with the data. If no flag is set on those who have been audited, the algorithm will treat them as just another data point in the loop. Or could it be that for each new certification, it's a clean start, treated as a newbie? Is that a true non-bias :)

Or, maybe, you simply need more letters after your name :D
I agree. they check for unfilled area in the application.
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Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD Senior Project Manager| Infosys Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Mar 10, 2018 9:46 PM
Replying to Najam Mumtaz
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Sante, I understand that it's frustrating with the deadline looming and even more as you can not reserve a date for exam before PMI's audit is over and there would be a lot of people trying to get the exam day reserve before 26th Mar.
I wish you best of luck with the exam and I am confident that with your knowledge base it would be walk in the park to get through the exam.
Thanks Najam, fingers crossed.
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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Sante, I regret to hear about your sad experience and I know how you feel now but please be patient and be careful of turning to antagonist it might alter your exam result, this is a supervised chat.
Now one question in your previous application for PMP did you show any of agile experience any hours, did you use fresh hours for agile, sometimes they call the references by phone to verify and if they don't pick up immediately then they send for audit. Good luck Sante, I can't wait to see your third experiment. like Andrew said "You do your thing, while they do theirs"
Looks like entering the airport of Sydney and get flagged for security interrogation :)
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Mar 11, 2018 5:36 AM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Thanks Riyadh :-)

My PMP application didn't mention Agile and the experience I used was taken from several years ago. My PMI-ACP application was fine and had more than enough Agile experience and there was more that I could have used. I don't think the system parses through the application text and then an alert is raised. According to them, it's a completely random audit. Antagonism may occur if I was audited three out of three times; something I will probably be testing in the future. I think the odds of fair and just audits after 3 strikes would probably cause anyone to have a drop in advocacy. Regarding supervised chats and affecting exam results, I have never been shy to speak my mind and never will be.
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Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD Senior Project Manager| Infosys Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Mar 11, 2018 4:02 AM
Replying to Riyadh Salih
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Sante, I regret to hear about your sad experience and I know how you feel now but please be patient and be careful of turning to antagonist it might alter your exam result, this is a supervised chat.
Now one question in your previous application for PMP did you show any of agile experience any hours, did you use fresh hours for agile, sometimes they call the references by phone to verify and if they don't pick up immediately then they send for audit. Good luck Sante, I can't wait to see your third experiment. like Andrew said "You do your thing, while they do theirs"
Looks like entering the airport of Sydney and get flagged for security interrogation :)
Thanks Riyadh :-)

My PMP application didn't mention Agile and the experience I used was taken from several years ago. My PMI-ACP application was fine and had more than enough Agile experience and there was more that I could have used. I don't think the system parses through the application text and then an alert is raised. According to them, it's a completely random audit. Antagonism may occur if I was audited three out of three times; something I will probably be testing in the future. I think the odds of fair and just audits after 3 strikes would probably cause anyone to have a drop in advocacy. Regarding supervised chats and affecting exam results, I have never been shy to speak my mind and never will be.
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1 reply by Riyadh Salih
Mar 11, 2018 11:10 AM
Riyadh Salih
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Sante, I know you are a brave man, I was just worried about you because we here care for you and I'm glad you didn't mind it.
I see the point of Bruce Garrod is very valid and it definitely has impact on audit. If you look back at both application you might have used same style and wording which trigger the audit, may be in future change wording on your third application.
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Karl Stiller Embedded Software Engineer| NOJA Power Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
I was also audited twice, once when I applied for the CAPM exam, and then again when I discovered I was eligible for the PMP exam and requested to change. It definitely didn't feel fair to me that I had to go through the audit process twice. Especially since I had worked in positions in different countries and cities and contacting all my old bosses wasn't easy and extremely time-consuming. I had left the application for the PMP exam until the last minute (yes this was stupid), and falling into the audit process meant that I would have to take the exam after a month-long holiday where I was not going to be able to touch my PM books. After coming back from holidays I decided to restart from scratch as I had felt that I had forgotten everything.

I also would love to know the algorithm that the PMI use for flagging an audit process. Perhaps Santi and I have "cursed" PMI membership numbers? I guess I will know if I apply to take the PMI-ACP exam and have to do another audit.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Mar 11, 2018 6:13 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Hi Karl, a similar thing happened to me on the PMP exam audit. And yes, using the terms PMI uses in the exam content handbook helped me as my original application used generic terms, and that seemed to do the trick. Although it was a hassle chasing two references from two different countries. I would be very interested if you (like me) get audited a third time, as this will be in my opinion way over the top and I will definitely be writing about it. So please keep me updated on that.
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Bruce Garrod Other| Solutions Managment Inc Uxbridge, Ontario, Canada
I have guided a few dozen applicants through the PMP application process. In the last 2 months the audi, or application rejection rate, is WAY up.
With a few of the applicants we changed the structure from being very descriptive and emphasizing HOW processes were used to more generic PMBOK terms and the applications were immediately accepted.
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3 replies by Karl Stiller, Riyadh Salih, and Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Mar 11, 2018 10:54 AM
Karl Stiller
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That's Interesting. I applied for the PMP some 6 years ago. I can't remember how I phrased my application, but I probably opted for the specific descriptive over a generic description. This might be how the artificial intelligence is programmed - if there is any at all. Though, without any information from PMI on how the audit is triggered, it's hard to make a judgement. I can't see the PMI releasing any information about how an audit is triggered as this would be a shot in their own foot. They need to protect their image and product. If I was in their shoes I would also audit anybody attempting to switch certifications. I should have seen it coming. In any case, I found the audit process rather flimsy. I wonder if the process will ever change.

But I shall follow your suggestion if I ever decide to take out another certification. Generic. PMBOK terms. Cheers!
Mar 11, 2018 11:12 AM
Riyadh Salih
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Bruce I believe in your points the wording of application definitely has impact on the audit, it must be stated according to PMBOK guide.
Mar 11, 2018 6:16 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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This is true Bruce, about using PMBOK terms. I found that using the language and terminology in the Exam Content Outline is the key. When I use my own words to mean the same thing, my PMP didn't pass. As soon as I used the terms in the exam content outline, it passed. Still my issue isn't the audit process, it's the "randomness" of selected someone twice or more than twice.
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Karl Stiller Embedded Software Engineer| NOJA Power Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Mar 11, 2018 9:30 AM
Replying to Bruce Garrod
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I have guided a few dozen applicants through the PMP application process. In the last 2 months the audi, or application rejection rate, is WAY up.
With a few of the applicants we changed the structure from being very descriptive and emphasizing HOW processes were used to more generic PMBOK terms and the applications were immediately accepted.
That's Interesting. I applied for the PMP some 6 years ago. I can't remember how I phrased my application, but I probably opted for the specific descriptive over a generic description. This might be how the artificial intelligence is programmed - if there is any at all. Though, without any information from PMI on how the audit is triggered, it's hard to make a judgement. I can't see the PMI releasing any information about how an audit is triggered as this would be a shot in their own foot. They need to protect their image and product. If I was in their shoes I would also audit anybody attempting to switch certifications. I should have seen it coming. In any case, I found the audit process rather flimsy. I wonder if the process will ever change.

But I shall follow your suggestion if I ever decide to take out another certification. Generic. PMBOK terms. Cheers!
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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Mar 11, 2018 5:36 AM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Thanks Riyadh :-)

My PMP application didn't mention Agile and the experience I used was taken from several years ago. My PMI-ACP application was fine and had more than enough Agile experience and there was more that I could have used. I don't think the system parses through the application text and then an alert is raised. According to them, it's a completely random audit. Antagonism may occur if I was audited three out of three times; something I will probably be testing in the future. I think the odds of fair and just audits after 3 strikes would probably cause anyone to have a drop in advocacy. Regarding supervised chats and affecting exam results, I have never been shy to speak my mind and never will be.
Sante, I know you are a brave man, I was just worried about you because we here care for you and I'm glad you didn't mind it.
I see the point of Bruce Garrod is very valid and it definitely has impact on audit. If you look back at both application you might have used same style and wording which trigger the audit, may be in future change wording on your third application.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Mar 11, 2018 6:18 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Hi Riyadh. I appreciate your words. Actually this audit I did the exact opposite, because I learned from the first audit. My wording couldn't have been crafted any better, highlighting my Agile project experience whil ensuring to use the terminology as per the Exam content outline, and still I got audited. The crazy thing is they also requested proof of my REP training course, when PMI has already awarded my 21 PDUs using the same course previously.
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