So, not sure how many of you have seen that PMI now has a Program Management Certification but I'm curious as to what others think about this new certification. I haven't seen many job descriptions on the job boards that have this as a requirements. What do y'all think? Saving Changes...
The big problem with this idea (and the difference between this and a FICO score) is that it's all still fairly subjective. Just as individuals will stretch their experience to "qualify" for a PMP, they'll stretch their experience to increase a PM score. FICO is based upon objective, verifiable measures. Unless you get audited, the PMI does no verification. I've known 3 people that were audited, and that gave me at least a bit of faith that it was at least happening, but how would the scoring be verified other than an honor system? In order for the score to be treated differently than a certification, you have to trust that the inputs to the score are valid. Saving Changes...
Mark Price PerryBusiness Driven PMO Evangelist| BOT InternationalOrlando, Fl, United States
Hi Charles,
You are absolutely correct. And no doubt, the first efforts to bring about a "PM Professional Score" will not be perfect nor without room for improvement. And as Machiavelli puts it ever so well,
"There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in a new order of things, because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new."
Nonetheless, the noble objectives of the "PM Professional Score" are to:
to provide a fair and balanced score and scoring process for project managers
that can serve as an accurate and comparative measure of overall professional capability
as determined by knowledge, competency, results achieved, and degree of difficulty
that can be established, maintained and improved upon over the career span of the project manager
The process must be not only fair, but trusted and administered by an independent 3rd party. The "PM Professional Score" Exploratory Commission has made quite a bit of early progress, welcomed and encouraged further by all those that have reviewed the working model. There seems to be universal agreement on the need for this. Stay tuned for more and as always, your feedback is welcomed..!
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
This is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Why should the PMP certification not follow the same idea as a CPA or lic to practice law!!!! All we need in this world is one more way to subjectively evaluate another person's credentials. I say, "If you want to go in the direction that you are proposing, then set up the statutory title of qualified PMs in the United States given to those who pass the Uniform Certified Project Management Professional Examination". That way I don't have to pay one more person like you and your organization to become multi-billionaires just so I can get a position working somewhere. See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certified_Public_Accountant"
By the way Mark, it is no longer cool to discuss Machiavelli. I just don't see why you want to spit on everyone that has obtained a very prestigious certification and one that is highly respected, the PMP. However, I just don't see the need for a PgMP or anything like your scoring. These are just someone's idea to make more money without doing anything except sitting around thinking they are Plato, Aristotle or some sort of "brain". Maybe you should join mensa and use your intelligence more wisely.
Saving Changes...
Mark Price PerryBusiness Driven PMO Evangelist| BOT InternationalOrlando, Fl, United States
Dear OnePost Onlynow,
I understand and respect your opinion. I would just offer three points for your consideration:
First, regarding your comment, "These are just someone's idea to make more money.."
The PM Professional Score concept is free and to be administered by a trusted 3rd party. There is NO cost to anyone. Your comment and concern resonates very clearly with those on the PM Professional Score exploratory commission. And, I quite agree with you on that point (value to the PM verses some kind of scheme to make money) and would not even consider being involved with this initiative if it required PMs to pay for their score or was not of the highest level of professional integrity.
Second, regarding your comment, "This is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard..."
Those were my exact words and thoughts when this idea was brought to my attention over three years ago. But after numerous discussions on this subject with CIOs, PMO Managers, Project Managers, and others, etc, many people feel there would be a value to having a PM Professional Score. This is in no way to discredit knowledge-based credentials such as the PMP. To the contrary, it is to complement and extend upon them to assess such areas as competency, results achieved, and degree of difficulty and over the career span of the project management professional.
Third, regarding your comment, "That way I don't have to pay one more person like you and your organization to become multi-billionaires just so I can get a position working somewhere."
Those involved in the PM Professional Score Exploratory Commission are participating on a volunteer basis without compensation of any kind. And, the Exploratory Commission members, including myself and the company that I work for do not want and will not receive compensation or fees or payment of any kind for past or future volunteer time expended on this initiative.
I certainly understand and appreciate your skepticism. One might think that the nature of your response suggests that our profession may have room for improvement in this area.
"One might think that the nature of your response suggests that our profession may have room for improvement in this area."
Outstanding - great response, and very timely.
The biggest difference here between CPA, JD and PMP is that the former two require many years of collegiate study, while the PMP requires experience and a base level of knowledge of project management as defined by PMI.
I think that most serious project managers, and certainly any PMP worth their salt would welcome this initiative. Hopefully, this will be a good measure with which to measure a PMP's experience. I believe that most companies would welcome the scoring system as an accurate way to measure incoming candidates, as well as the experience/maturity of their PM staff.
As long as this score is an accurate measure, the only PMPs that should be leery of it are the ones who will be scored and found lacking.
Saving Changes...
Mark Price PerryBusiness Driven PMO Evangelist| BOT InternationalOrlando, Fl, United States
Hi Charles,
Thanks for the reply and you did a much better job in explaining and clarifying this than I did..! I quite understand the "response" of OnePost Onlynow and I agree with the point that he/she makes like not wanting to line the pockets of someone else just to get a job. And, it was that concern and general impression of this idea that I was referring to when I commented upon the "nature" of OnePost Onlynow's post.
To OnePost Onlynow, if you are still reading, I would like to reiterate that I meant no criticism to your post and the merit of your opinions. To the contrary, that one in our industry would think that an initiative such as this would be undertaken to make a buck, or to effect an outcome that would exploit and coerce PMs to participate in order to get a job, or that there are those with nothing better to do than to sit around a come up with such ideas, etc, only serves as notice and suggests that "our profession may have room for improvement in this area." No doubt, your thoughts and impressions are coming from your experiences within the industry and have cause and merit. This was the "nature of your response" that I was referring to. I suspect that you and I have far more in common on this topic than we have in disagreement.
I initially started reading this post to find out more about how people feel about the PgMP. The jury is still out on how I feel about it.
I did however find the conversation about a PM score interesting. Wanted to express some opinions on it.
1. to provide a fair and balanced score and scoring process for project managers
This will be entirely too subjective. As Charles mentioned below, the FICO scoring is based upon tangible information and not speculative data. I may view a PM as inept while someone else may view the PM as great. Short of just providing a peer-review organization such as 'Martindale-Hubble' for attorneys, I fail to see how a 'PM Score System' could come to fruition.
2. that can serve as an accurate and comparative measure of overall professional capability
Again information carried over from above... having some level of quantitative solution for a job that can be perceived as an art is an impossibility.
3. as determined by knowledge, competency, results achieved, and degree of difficulty
Adding in another level of subjectivity with 'degree of difficulty'. How about knowledge, you mean formal education? Would that be considered? Then do you have to rank all the schools after that? For example I earned my MBA from a traditional private University. Would my knowledge be ranked higher than someone with an Online MBA from University of Pheonix?
4. that can be established, maintained and improved upon over the career span of the project manager
Would this just be started once a PM gets their PMP.. how many people are out there doing PM work without actually realizing it's being a project manager... then how many people have the job title of 'Project Manager' without doing one bit of project management.
Good luck in your venture of developing a universal ranking system for PM's that would actually accurately reflect a persons ability with a numbered score. Saving Changes...
I have visited this post a few times and have thoroughly enjoyed the threads. I don't see the problems with subjectivity that others have commented upon. Perhaps those not in management don't realize that employee ranking based upon a set criteria is something we do all the time and criteria like complexity and difficulty are always factored. A free service to PMs administered by a trusted 3rd party for the purpose of providing a fair and accurate professional score (or rank) over one's career span does sounds interesting, but is there a business need for such a thing? Saving Changes...
The problem with subjectivity is a system like that could be extremely exploitable. For example, you have a PMP who is horrid. (I have met a number of these) So you go to this website, fill out a little info and give him 1's out of 10's. He sees this and submits from 50 separate email accounts info on 50 separate made up projects rating himself as a 10. Therefore that now makes him look like an Ace PM. How would you prevent this? Through validation, how could you even begin to validate. Saving Changes...
