Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
What is your explanation for gender wage gap in project management profession? I just checked the new PM salary report published on PMI site. You see that experience, certification, project complexity makes a difference in salary which makes sense. But gender difference is big though almost 40% of PMs in US are women so I don’t think that those 40% would all work on entry positions. Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Apr 03, 2018 10:15 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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I think over the coming years you will find the gap closing and don’t be surprised if you see it reversed in favor of the female Gender. Do you see that coming ?
I don’t think it will happen any soon because it’s not only about the salary, it’s about the whole complex workforce environment. There is so much bias present which is influencing how men and women are perceived. It’s also linked to a cultural aspects. All of this is not going to change any soon. It requires a lot of work and awareness of companies who need to want to change it. And I know there is already a lot of effort put in place but it’s a long run.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Apr 03, 2018 11:07 PM
Rami Kaibni
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I see you point Lenka ... Well, you have my support :-)
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 03, 2018 10:19 PM
Replying to Lenka Pincot
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I don’t think it will happen any soon because it’s not only about the salary, it’s about the whole complex workforce environment. There is so much bias present which is influencing how men and women are perceived. It’s also linked to a cultural aspects. All of this is not going to change any soon. It requires a lot of work and awareness of companies who need to want to change it. And I know there is already a lot of effort put in place but it’s a long run.
I see you point Lenka ... Well, you have my support :-) Saving Changes...
I guess it ties in with all studies on the gender wage gap?
There are many indications of gender, by itself, not being a factor (see, for example, the study conducted by Uber on the earnings gaps between female drivers and male drivers in the USA. An eminent panel was invited to drive the study and their findings are pretty indicative that gender is not a direct factor for this gap).
See also the Simpson Paradox and its application to the question of the gender pay gap, in general - the BBC podcast More Or Less had a couple of very interesting episodes providing coverage on this topic.
I have seen the findings of the PM salary report - but I must admit that I have not dug deeper to see what the probable causes are. Saving Changes...
Sandra MaughonProfessor| Piedmont CollegeCleveland, Ga, United States
I wonder if it could also be in the actual jobs reported as project manager. It seems to me that here in the states a lot of companies play fast and loose with the job title of "project manager", particularly in call centers and advertising (more push advertising than marketing). These jobs tend to be in low level, high turnover roles with more women than men. Just a guess based on conversations and sales calls over the years; absolutely no data.
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2 replies by Mayte Mata Sivera and Wade Harshman
Sep 25, 2018 11:35 AM
Mayte Mata Sivera
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That's a good point, just yesterday I received an email asking for a project manager with 2-3 years of experience, software engineer, technical artist or similar.
Sep 26, 2018 4:05 PM
Wade Harshman
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Sanda, that's an interesting observation. I've seen people with the title of "Project Manager" with professional duties ranging from secretarial work in an office to main foreman on a major construction site or project lead on billion dollar aerospace development. Project Management spans a wide range of industries and responsibilities, and we shouldn't expect everyone with the title of "project manager" to have similar pay. And we know that not all industries are equal when it comes to gender (for whatever reason... women could be indirectly or purposefully excluded, or simply not attracted to the work).
Do we have enough data to break down the project management wage gap by industry and see to what extent that could influence the gender wage gap?
Indeed Kiron, wage gap is existing across professions and industries. But I was wondering if you have any opinion why it is present in PM. PM is quite structured job. As you see the main driver for the salary is experience, education and project complexity. Gender should play minimal role.
Unfortunately, such gender wage gaps are rarely the outcome of any careful assessment of the nature of the role and rather just reflect a rather large blind spot on the part of HR and other support functions.
I'm always in favor of having defined compensation bands with a midpoint target which most candidates will receive with those more junior coming in below and those more senior coming in above.
Another way to avoid this is to have the compensation decision made by an impartial HR compensation analyst who is not made aware of the gender or any other potential sources of bias.
Kiron Saving Changes...
George DowningImplementation Manager| BT Global ServicesDedham, Ma, United States
Apr 03, 2018 5:54 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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I haven't seen a gap that wasn't explained by choice to leave the workforce (ie. for raising children) and then re-entering the workforce. Further, one gender is more likely to work overtime and one is not again mainly due to child-raising efforts. These factors do not play a small part in promotion and salary increase. The "gap" is not based on factual data from two genders working the same way, in the same region, with similar work experience and skill/knowledge who have both not left work for reasons such as raising children. All quantitative analysis must compare apples with apples, and none of those studies have, which is why it has been debunked time and time again. In an even playing field (considering all of the above), both genders apply for the same role, they will be paid the same for that role, and if they aren't, then that is not fair and that alone is what should be used to feed the data analysis of any "gender gap".
Sante,
I agree with you... let's keep it apples to apples.
If this type of discrimination is exposed let's be united in our efforts to end it, but I have never witnessed it first-hand and don't expect that I ever will. I would be fully supportive of anyone currently experiencing this today, as it is possible. Saving Changes...
Meade RubensteinPM III| IT Project GuideSparta, Nj, United States
Lenka - thanks for sending the report. Taking a quick pass at it (US focused) - and not having the 'detail' information behind it, it might be that the gender gap is more to do with the years of experience gap - I don't think many women were in the IT or PM sphere of the workforce as long as men have been AND the experience gap seems to correspond to the gender gap (all speculation). There shouldn't be any gender pay gap in the PM job sphere - but that doesn't mean there is...its one of those job sectors where gender should have no play at all. Saving Changes...
I don't see real reasons for difference in wage. There is one I agree, it is getting narrower and that is good. Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Thank you for your thoughts. What I’m reading from your responses it is not very cheering. Sounds like we expect that women take only less qualified jobs, are not high enough as men regarding their career or they don’t work enough as men because they run families. Actually these are all causes for wage gaps that are very real, including the perception of what we expect from men and what we expect from women, or in other words gender bias.
And its not going to be better by saying that the gap is actually not that big or that is getting smaller so that’s good. It’s not good. There should be no gap. Saving Changes...
On the contrary Lenka, women do work hard but your reference to "not high enough" is not quantifiable. Women do take less qualified jobs than men as a direct result of the fact that they choose to take time off to raise children, or value a balanced home/work life more than men. We haven't even factored in high risk / high pay jobs (ie. oil rigging) where men are far more likely to accept jobs for, thus raising the average wage for men. Conversely, many of the lower paid jobs admittedly through socio-economic factors such as domestic help or factory work using "cheap" labor have a high percentage of women who get paid a lot less, lowering the average salaries for women. Further, women are more likely to be a teacher, a nurse, care-giver and the list goes on, again lowering average salaries. Having said all of this, we are all on the same side here, meaning we all agree men and women should be paid the same. But what I am saying is when you compare apples to apples (men and women with similar experience, skills, qualifications, regional location, etc) they get paid basically the same, and any data that claims there is a gender gap must compare apples with apples, not skew the data by including the extreme end of the bell curve. If you examine another man who has very similar experience, skills, qualifications, located in your area, and you both go for the same PM job, are you telling me he will get paid more simply because he is a man? I would venture to say no, and in fact if it were the case, there would be swift and easy legal recourse, in which the women would get paid a bunch of money and then be earning more than the man who was wrongly offered a higher salary :-)
Anyway, this is probably not the best forum for gender diversity discussion. I did not wanted to make it general. I was interested in the PM sector only. On the salary report there are no teachers, nurses, stay at home moms, it’s just about people doing project management jobs. Thanks for your view! I’m working on a project creating women empowerment support network. It’s crucial to understand views of men and women to make it right. And let’s hope the gap will be closed one day. Because it’s not only about ensuring that women stand the same chances as men or get the right pay. It’s also about supporting men to be able to spend more time with their families and kids without worries about family income and other things.
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