Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
What is your explanation for gender wage gap in project management profession? I just checked the new PM salary report published on PMI site. You see that experience, certification, project complexity makes a difference in salary which makes sense. But gender difference is big though almost 40% of PMs in US are women so I don’t think that those 40% would all work on entry positions. Saving Changes...
Lisa DahlquistConsultant| Dahl Solutions ConsultingSacramento, Ca, United States
Based on my personal experience in the profession, I would attribute a great deal of it to perception, both of employers and job candidates, of an employee's worth. These positions don't generally have set pay scales. You get paid what you can negotiate. I work at a client site that has used our consulting firm over several years and currently there are 9 of us from the firm working on several projects. The highest performers in that group are female. The client has learned that through the work that we have been doing over the last 3 years over several projects and has requested for us to be the engagement and project leads on several projects. It is understood, acknowledged and we are the go-to people for both client and consultant staff. But we know for a fact that we are not the highest paid. We know a couple of the males who are not very high performing are paid more. They are confident and good at self-promotion, however. In the business unit meetings, they freely take credit for the team's good work and high business renewal rates. The females tend to credit the whole team. Our group has similar education and experience levels (none of the females have taken time off to raise children). I'm sure that the confidence and self promotion was there in the hiring process and they negotiated higher starting salaries and negotiate for higher raises now. They see themselves as valuable and the employers do too. I have more anecdotal evidence from other jobs at other companies too. As women become more aware of this dynamic, I expect this will change. I hope. It's a deep cultural change in how men and women see themselves and see others.
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2 replies by Lenka Pincot and Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Apr 11, 2018 6:09 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Good points Lisa, it may indeed come down in part to negotiation. Some organizations here do actually have pay scales for most jobs, so people are paid exactly the same for a particular title in these companies. However there is a case to be made that this practice is not ideal because it standardizes salaries but not performance. In this regard, perhaps bonuses are the way to solve this, so that everyone is paid the same, but people are paid bonuses for performance. In my view teams should be evaluated above individuals, so it's good to see the females in your example praising the team. If companies switch their assessments to team-based, the showoffs would have less leverage to claim credit, and negotiate better salaries.
Apr 11, 2018 8:43 PM
Lenka Pincot
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Thank you Lisa for sharing this, I totally agree with you and having similar experience. And you are absolutely right about the need for the cultural change. I know there are companies who are running diversity programs and working on closing the gaps, but that’s something which cannot be done only by management decision. It’s indeed a lot about the people themselves and about fighting gender stereotypes. We are all caught in that. But with raising awareness there’s a hope it will change in future.
2 replies by Lenka Pincot and Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Apr 12, 2018 10:52 AM
Lenka Pincot
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Hi Kiron, thanks for looking at that. I’ve just quickly read it. Children. I really find it so unfair. Children are the future of any society.
I was so often thinking that motherhood should be highlighted with skills that you learn which are actually so useful at workplace. I have 3 kids. My time management skills are super high, organization and planning skills, communication, negotiation, constant research I’m doing, looking for resources. There’s so much.
I think the only solution is provide flexibility and support to mothers so they can do their job right. Because I don’t believe at all that if you work 60 hours per week that you do more for the company. I think it’s a lot about productivity, not about the absolute time. There was recently a discussion on this site about having lunch at work desk. It’s so sad that people don’t take breaks. People need breaks to keep their brain working. It’s about brain hygiene.
Apr 12, 2018 11:51 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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At least there's some more objectivity in the data in this article, which is surprising come from NYT ;-)
Based on my personal experience in the profession, I would attribute a great deal of it to perception, both of employers and job candidates, of an employee's worth. These positions don't generally have set pay scales. You get paid what you can negotiate. I work at a client site that has used our consulting firm over several years and currently there are 9 of us from the firm working on several projects. The highest performers in that group are female. The client has learned that through the work that we have been doing over the last 3 years over several projects and has requested for us to be the engagement and project leads on several projects. It is understood, acknowledged and we are the go-to people for both client and consultant staff. But we know for a fact that we are not the highest paid. We know a couple of the males who are not very high performing are paid more. They are confident and good at self-promotion, however. In the business unit meetings, they freely take credit for the team's good work and high business renewal rates. The females tend to credit the whole team. Our group has similar education and experience levels (none of the females have taken time off to raise children). I'm sure that the confidence and self promotion was there in the hiring process and they negotiated higher starting salaries and negotiate for higher raises now. They see themselves as valuable and the employers do too. I have more anecdotal evidence from other jobs at other companies too. As women become more aware of this dynamic, I expect this will change. I hope. It's a deep cultural change in how men and women see themselves and see others.
Good points Lisa, it may indeed come down in part to negotiation. Some organizations here do actually have pay scales for most jobs, so people are paid exactly the same for a particular title in these companies. However there is a case to be made that this practice is not ideal because it standardizes salaries but not performance. In this regard, perhaps bonuses are the way to solve this, so that everyone is paid the same, but people are paid bonuses for performance. In my view teams should be evaluated above individuals, so it's good to see the females in your example praising the team. If companies switch their assessments to team-based, the showoffs would have less leverage to claim credit, and negotiate better salaries. Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Apr 11, 2018 4:44 PM
Replying to Lisa Dahlquist
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Based on my personal experience in the profession, I would attribute a great deal of it to perception, both of employers and job candidates, of an employee's worth. These positions don't generally have set pay scales. You get paid what you can negotiate. I work at a client site that has used our consulting firm over several years and currently there are 9 of us from the firm working on several projects. The highest performers in that group are female. The client has learned that through the work that we have been doing over the last 3 years over several projects and has requested for us to be the engagement and project leads on several projects. It is understood, acknowledged and we are the go-to people for both client and consultant staff. But we know for a fact that we are not the highest paid. We know a couple of the males who are not very high performing are paid more. They are confident and good at self-promotion, however. In the business unit meetings, they freely take credit for the team's good work and high business renewal rates. The females tend to credit the whole team. Our group has similar education and experience levels (none of the females have taken time off to raise children). I'm sure that the confidence and self promotion was there in the hiring process and they negotiated higher starting salaries and negotiate for higher raises now. They see themselves as valuable and the employers do too. I have more anecdotal evidence from other jobs at other companies too. As women become more aware of this dynamic, I expect this will change. I hope. It's a deep cultural change in how men and women see themselves and see others.
Thank you Lisa for sharing this, I totally agree with you and having similar experience. And you are absolutely right about the need for the cultural change. I know there are companies who are running diversity programs and working on closing the gaps, but that’s something which cannot be done only by management decision. It’s indeed a lot about the people themselves and about fighting gender stereotypes. We are all caught in that. But with raising awareness there’s a hope it will change in future. Saving Changes...
Lenka PincotChief of Staff to the CEO| Project Management InstituteParis, France
Hi Kiron, thanks for looking at that. I’ve just quickly read it. Children. I really find it so unfair. Children are the future of any society.
I was so often thinking that motherhood should be highlighted with skills that you learn which are actually so useful at workplace. I have 3 kids. My time management skills are super high, organization and planning skills, communication, negotiation, constant research I’m doing, looking for resources. There’s so much.
I think the only solution is provide flexibility and support to mothers so they can do their job right. Because I don’t believe at all that if you work 60 hours per week that you do more for the company. I think it’s a lot about productivity, not about the absolute time. There was recently a discussion on this site about having lunch at work desk. It’s so sad that people don’t take breaks. People need breaks to keep their brain working. It’s about brain hygiene. Saving Changes...
At least there's some more objectivity in the data in this article, which is surprising come from NYT ;-) Saving Changes...
Michelle WatkinsFounder & CEO| Global PMO PartnersFranklin, Tn, United States
Hi Linka,
I joined Salesforce about 7 months ago and it was the first time in my career that I've worked for a company that focused on equal pay for equal work. I had never really thought about the variance in my pay and the pay of my male peers to this extent. Here's a great segment from our Founder and CEO, Marc Benioff and our Chief People Office, Cindy Robbins from 60 minutes aired just this past Sunday: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/salesforce-ce...gender-pay-gap/ Saving Changes...
Eva LabowiczCross-functional Global Project Manager| HERERoselle, Il, United States
Michelle Watkins points us to interview with the Salesforce CEO, Mark Benioff. I have listened with great interest, as I was not aware that Salesforce was so in front about eliminating the wage gap and other "gaps" in their workforce. It is poignant that it takes a MAN to start pushing the scales in a different direction despite efforts by women. Same was the story in emancipation of women. So, it seems the most promising approach is to condition men around us differently, starting with the home, and then capitalizing on progressive trends in the workspace as they gain visibility and critical mass. Do not be afraid to demand equal = fair pay?
Mark Benioff believes this is a cultural phenomenon to pay women less - period. Research shows it would take 100 years to eliminate that gap. We better start now - he says.
He also said he refuses to participate in all-male meetings, just invite more women. I have been in many such meetings, as a single woman.
Made me sensitive to demonstrate - at least at home - that we have equality for chores and for benefits.
My daughter-in-law is forever grateful that my son is an equal participant in the household and with the kids, even though he is the dominant breadwinner. She mentions that often.
But then they are milennials. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
I would like to mention, in some countries sometimes women are not taken seriously when they look for project manager or senior roles. They might have similar experience as compared to men but during performance appraisal or promotion they get to hear the experience they do not have or things they cannot do. Sadly middle management might be biased and not encouraging and motivating enough.
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1 reply by Lenka Pincot
Sep 25, 2018 1:16 PM
Lenka Pincot
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This is an old question from me, thanks for digging this up:)
Yes, gender gap and diversity is definitely connected to local environment, culture, role of women in society. It is sad when someone has experience that as a women you are not taken seriously. It should not happen.
I don't have an explanation. I could guess at variables, but they wouldn't be the same for someone else. The last several months is the first time in 16 years of project management that my immediate supervisor is not a woman. My position has been a lower grade with lower pay; the person I've reported to has either had more management experience or more project management experience, or both. Saving Changes...
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