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Too late to take corrective action?

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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
What would you do as PM if you have discovered a mistake but it is too late to take a corrective actions what would be the course of actions?

Assuming the implication of that mistake is not severe but it should be implemented as part of the design drawing.

Can we judge the severity or can we challenge the structure engineer recommendations / I don't think so - few PM might do based on past experiences
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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Apr 21, 2018 7:48 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Develop a workaround if possible; and if that fails, then yes populate the lessons learned to avoid such a mistake in the future.
Sante, yes I agree the only action left over is to workaround as no time to scrape and rework
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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Apr 21, 2018 8:03 PM
Replying to Kevin Drake
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I was called one time by a friend to visit his own house site (2000 sqm land) in Oman, and I was curious about the foundations piles, and I found that the whole thing was done wrong. We called in to site the PM ,surveyer, consultant, and piling company. Thanks god that I was not in the pm shoes at that day.
It was very messy, the project was late at least 2 months.
I am sure the consultant did not visit the site ever. PM visited the site frequently but he took the work of the piling company without inspection and obviously he is one of those who doesn't roll his sleeves. Surveyer marks were a bit confusing. When we asked for the inspection plan, forget about it. Etc...
Kevin, thanks for another realistic example it is very true that consultant don't visit a lot or may be the PM was lacking the expertise of civil engineering so luckily the house did not fall on the heads
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Its belongs, at least in my personal experience, to quality. Then it is a matter to make a difference between quality and grade. Sometimes what you stated belongs to grade. Both have to be defined at the begining of the initiative and belongs to strategical decisions that are beyond the initiative. The second is what it does mean "to late to take corrective actions"? Always is time to take actions. Third, and at the end, is a matter of risk. The risk must be evaluated. For example, if the risk has as impact in loosing human being life then you have to consider to put the corrective action in place (I can list here well known and documented situations where that did not happen). As any other thing inside the project is not a decision that a project manager must take.
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1 reply by Riyadh Salih
Apr 23, 2018 12:08 AM
Riyadh Salih
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Sergio, thanks for your input I agree if it is a matter of grade or quality or cosmetic but like you mentioned if human life involved if the engineering calculation calls for certain requirements but half met now what - sometimes they over calculate and have bigger margin which can sustain mistakes like that, it is complicated -- I think to avoid this one can increase manpower and have someone continuously do inspections
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Ulrich Duerr Head of Project Management| H & S Ottenbach, Switzerland
1st Point: what means too late to do corrective actions? Many proposals above still recommend corrective actions. So your delivery does not match with the agreed scope, that was proposed to the customer. Possibility no 1 check how critical the failed criteria is for your customer. Is there a chance to compensate the customer for changing the criteria? Approach no. two: check your legal exponation, what is the worst case scenario (e.g. safety relevance, see above Mr. Conte) and prepare your organization. Approach no 3: have some idea in place how to help your customer out, BEFORE you talk to him.
My general comment. You are not alone. The bigger projects are the more things happen like this, always try not to be the most painful supplier to your customer as those always get special treatment :-).
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1 reply by Riyadh Salih
Apr 23, 2018 12:02 AM
Riyadh Salih
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Ulrich - like if you poured the foundation and it dried out cured so it is solid now you discovered that it was done by single re-bar not double and you don't have time to break it and re do the re-bar do you have time for all new framing ?
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Karan Shah Bangalore, Karnataka, India
Mistakes happen. All the time. To err, after all, is human.

As to how to deal with it, the other responses have covered it pretty comprehensively already.

The only qualifier I would stress on is to first contain the fallout instead of looking to assign responsibility (or 'blame') for the mistake.

There's a story I heard as a kid. A man and his wife are walking when a snake comes up and bites the wife. The snake slithers away and the husband, full of rage, chases after it. He catches it after about a 100m and stomps it to death.

But when he comes back, the wife has succumbed to the poison.

Moral of the story: Get the wife medical care, first. The snake can always be hunted down later - and even if it is not, the wife is still alive.
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2 replies by Riyadh Salih and Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Apr 22, 2018 9:57 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Good story Karan. Unless he really didn't like his wife (analogy: wants the project to fail and assign blame which happens a lot).
Apr 23, 2018 12:27 AM
Riyadh Salih
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Karan, the intention is not to put blame or punish but someone has to be accountable
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Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD Senior Project Manager| Infosys Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Apr 22, 2018 9:51 PM
Replying to Karan Shah
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Mistakes happen. All the time. To err, after all, is human.

As to how to deal with it, the other responses have covered it pretty comprehensively already.

The only qualifier I would stress on is to first contain the fallout instead of looking to assign responsibility (or 'blame') for the mistake.

There's a story I heard as a kid. A man and his wife are walking when a snake comes up and bites the wife. The snake slithers away and the husband, full of rage, chases after it. He catches it after about a 100m and stomps it to death.

But when he comes back, the wife has succumbed to the poison.

Moral of the story: Get the wife medical care, first. The snake can always be hunted down later - and even if it is not, the wife is still alive.
Good story Karan. Unless he really didn't like his wife (analogy: wants the project to fail and assign blame which happens a lot).
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1 reply by Riyadh Salih
Apr 22, 2018 11:49 PM
Riyadh Salih
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Sante - hehheeheheh I thought the same that he might be the one who sent the snake LOL
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Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Apr 22, 2018 9:57 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
Good story Karan. Unless he really didn't like his wife (analogy: wants the project to fail and assign blame which happens a lot).
Sante - hehheeheheh I thought the same that he might be the one who sent the snake LOL
avatar
Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Apr 22, 2018 10:01 AM
Replying to Ulrich Duerr
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1st Point: what means too late to do corrective actions? Many proposals above still recommend corrective actions. So your delivery does not match with the agreed scope, that was proposed to the customer. Possibility no 1 check how critical the failed criteria is for your customer. Is there a chance to compensate the customer for changing the criteria? Approach no. two: check your legal exponation, what is the worst case scenario (e.g. safety relevance, see above Mr. Conte) and prepare your organization. Approach no 3: have some idea in place how to help your customer out, BEFORE you talk to him.
My general comment. You are not alone. The bigger projects are the more things happen like this, always try not to be the most painful supplier to your customer as those always get special treatment :-).
Ulrich - like if you poured the foundation and it dried out cured so it is solid now you discovered that it was done by single re-bar not double and you don't have time to break it and re do the re-bar do you have time for all new framing ?
avatar
Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Apr 22, 2018 7:31 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
Its belongs, at least in my personal experience, to quality. Then it is a matter to make a difference between quality and grade. Sometimes what you stated belongs to grade. Both have to be defined at the begining of the initiative and belongs to strategical decisions that are beyond the initiative. The second is what it does mean "to late to take corrective actions"? Always is time to take actions. Third, and at the end, is a matter of risk. The risk must be evaluated. For example, if the risk has as impact in loosing human being life then you have to consider to put the corrective action in place (I can list here well known and documented situations where that did not happen). As any other thing inside the project is not a decision that a project manager must take.
Sergio, thanks for your input I agree if it is a matter of grade or quality or cosmetic but like you mentioned if human life involved if the engineering calculation calls for certain requirements but half met now what - sometimes they over calculate and have bigger margin which can sustain mistakes like that, it is complicated -- I think to avoid this one can increase manpower and have someone continuously do inspections
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Apr 23, 2018 4:16 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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The problem is not possible to avoid it. A tool like helped me a lot is the Barry Bohem´s Cone of Uncertainty that was created for software but it is used in other domains too.
avatar
Riyadh Salih Saskatchewan, Canada
Apr 22, 2018 9:51 PM
Replying to Karan Shah
...
Mistakes happen. All the time. To err, after all, is human.

As to how to deal with it, the other responses have covered it pretty comprehensively already.

The only qualifier I would stress on is to first contain the fallout instead of looking to assign responsibility (or 'blame') for the mistake.

There's a story I heard as a kid. A man and his wife are walking when a snake comes up and bites the wife. The snake slithers away and the husband, full of rage, chases after it. He catches it after about a 100m and stomps it to death.

But when he comes back, the wife has succumbed to the poison.

Moral of the story: Get the wife medical care, first. The snake can always be hunted down later - and even if it is not, the wife is still alive.
Karan, the intention is not to put blame or punish but someone has to be accountable
...
1 reply by Karan Shah
Apr 24, 2018 12:34 AM
Karan Shah
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Oh, absolutely.

The point I was trying to make is to defer that (for the lack of a better term) 'witch-hunting' step until the fallout from the mistake is contained.

Once we've saved the wife - we can go around snake-hunting to our heart's content.
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