Drew CraigSr. Agile & Product Coach| VanguardPhiladelphia, Pa, United States
Jul 03, 2018 4:59 AM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Overseas I saw productivity and performance increase when workers were remote, and still managers did not trust remote employees as much as when they were in the office. It's all about a loss of control, or the perception of same.
When office-bound the impression is working an 8-hour shift. When home-bound (remote) there is more of a tendency to 'multi-task', i.e. taking the dog for a walk, going for a run during lunch.
(But what about all those smoke breaks!)
The reality is that even in the office, you're getting 5-6 hours of solid work a day, regardless of the location (remote or office)
The perception of what it means to work remote is the problem here. Take Eric's comment above - no trust at all. That is [the] a problem. So what do we measure, time or quality?
Unfortunately, many do take advantage of an organization's trust. Some org's are tracking login location and times. Maybe there should be a mandate for video calls. Honestly, heck, most don't even pay attention in meetings when sitting in person in the office - typing, texting, surfing, sleeping, whatever.
Now, what I like about co-location are the relationships that come from personal and ad-hoc conversations, design discussions, what-if's, etc. There is just something organic about co-location and something I believe that no matter how great our remote supported tools are, it is just not the same.
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2 replies by Joshua Render and Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Jul 03, 2018 7:05 AM
Joshua Render
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I didn't think anybody actually liked colocation. The biggest problem I have with it, the open office environment. When I am trying to figure things out, people around me talking about everything except work - giving me way too many details into their personal life sometimes - it just becomes a distraction for me.
I read a study a while ago, I will have to look it up again, about how much time people are actually working per day, and it pegged it at 4 hours for onsite workers and 5 hours for remote workers. That office chit-chat being one thing that causes the difference.
I don't know about other remote workers, but I tend to get up at pretty much the same time as I would if I drove to a job and I tend to start pretty close to the time I would leave for a job. I don't watch the clock like I would in an office either. Normally I shoot for about 5 in the afternoon, but a lot of days I work past that, 6 'o clock or so. It is 7 AM right now and I am turning my work computer on to start my day. So I figure if I want to start a load of laundry, I am not really losing any dedicated work time.
Jul 03, 2018 5:41 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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I am a big supporter of remote workers, having managed a migration from office to home for the (almost) entire workforce of one organization overseas. The managers that remained at the company offices had/have an issue with the migration citing several problems including trust, but when you drill down you discover that a lot of those issues can be mitigated by appropriate technology, regular face-to-face (virtual) meetings, feedback loops, an open attitude, and respect for flexible working arrangements.
Saving Changes...
Joshua RenderProduct Owner| CognizantHarrisville, Ny, United States
Jul 03, 2018 6:43 AM
Replying to Drew Craig
...
When office-bound the impression is working an 8-hour shift. When home-bound (remote) there is more of a tendency to 'multi-task', i.e. taking the dog for a walk, going for a run during lunch.
(But what about all those smoke breaks!)
The reality is that even in the office, you're getting 5-6 hours of solid work a day, regardless of the location (remote or office)
The perception of what it means to work remote is the problem here. Take Eric's comment above - no trust at all. That is [the] a problem. So what do we measure, time or quality?
Unfortunately, many do take advantage of an organization's trust. Some org's are tracking login location and times. Maybe there should be a mandate for video calls. Honestly, heck, most don't even pay attention in meetings when sitting in person in the office - typing, texting, surfing, sleeping, whatever.
Now, what I like about co-location are the relationships that come from personal and ad-hoc conversations, design discussions, what-if's, etc. There is just something organic about co-location and something I believe that no matter how great our remote supported tools are, it is just not the same.
I didn't think anybody actually liked colocation. The biggest problem I have with it, the open office environment. When I am trying to figure things out, people around me talking about everything except work - giving me way too many details into their personal life sometimes - it just becomes a distraction for me.
I read a study a while ago, I will have to look it up again, about how much time people are actually working per day, and it pegged it at 4 hours for onsite workers and 5 hours for remote workers. That office chit-chat being one thing that causes the difference.
I don't know about other remote workers, but I tend to get up at pretty much the same time as I would if I drove to a job and I tend to start pretty close to the time I would leave for a job. I don't watch the clock like I would in an office either. Normally I shoot for about 5 in the afternoon, but a lot of days I work past that, 6 'o clock or so. It is 7 AM right now and I am turning my work computer on to start my day. So I figure if I want to start a load of laundry, I am not really losing any dedicated work time. Saving Changes...
When office-bound the impression is working an 8-hour shift. When home-bound (remote) there is more of a tendency to 'multi-task', i.e. taking the dog for a walk, going for a run during lunch.
(But what about all those smoke breaks!)
The reality is that even in the office, you're getting 5-6 hours of solid work a day, regardless of the location (remote or office)
The perception of what it means to work remote is the problem here. Take Eric's comment above - no trust at all. That is [the] a problem. So what do we measure, time or quality?
Unfortunately, many do take advantage of an organization's trust. Some org's are tracking login location and times. Maybe there should be a mandate for video calls. Honestly, heck, most don't even pay attention in meetings when sitting in person in the office - typing, texting, surfing, sleeping, whatever.
Now, what I like about co-location are the relationships that come from personal and ad-hoc conversations, design discussions, what-if's, etc. There is just something organic about co-location and something I believe that no matter how great our remote supported tools are, it is just not the same.
I am a big supporter of remote workers, having managed a migration from office to home for the (almost) entire workforce of one organization overseas. The managers that remained at the company offices had/have an issue with the migration citing several problems including trust, but when you drill down you discover that a lot of those issues can be mitigated by appropriate technology, regular face-to-face (virtual) meetings, feedback loops, an open attitude, and respect for flexible working arrangements.
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1 reply by Drew Craig
Jul 03, 2018 6:04 PM
Drew Craig
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Yep. I also suppose remote is relative. I can be in the office, while the team is elsewhere(home, other office, coffee shop). So even if I’m in the office, I too am remote. Comes down to perception.
Saving Changes...
Drew CraigSr. Agile & Product Coach| VanguardPhiladelphia, Pa, United States
Jul 03, 2018 5:41 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
I am a big supporter of remote workers, having managed a migration from office to home for the (almost) entire workforce of one organization overseas. The managers that remained at the company offices had/have an issue with the migration citing several problems including trust, but when you drill down you discover that a lot of those issues can be mitigated by appropriate technology, regular face-to-face (virtual) meetings, feedback loops, an open attitude, and respect for flexible working arrangements.
Yep. I also suppose remote is relative. I can be in the office, while the team is elsewhere(home, other office, coffee shop). So even if I’m in the office, I too am remote. Comes down to perception. Saving Changes...
RAJESH K LProject Manager, PMP| Bharat Electronics, Bengaluru, IndiaBengaluru, Karnataka, India
instead of discussing on the parameter of trust, can it be discussed based on performance and productivity? Whether work happens in local office or in remote, ultimately it depends on estimating the quantum and time it consumes. If the progress and completion is happening as per plan, it should be fine.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Jul 03, 2018 8:48 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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It should be based on productivity and performance yes, but still the trust issues are real, and are displayed on both sides (managers and remote workers) so they need to be addressed. Part of addressing it is through performance/productivity measures.
instead of discussing on the parameter of trust, can it be discussed based on performance and productivity? Whether work happens in local office or in remote, ultimately it depends on estimating the quantum and time it consumes. If the progress and completion is happening as per plan, it should be fine.
It should be based on productivity and performance yes, but still the trust issues are real, and are displayed on both sides (managers and remote workers) so they need to be addressed. Part of addressing it is through performance/productivity measures.
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1 reply by RAJESH K L
Jul 04, 2018 1:30 AM
RAJESH K L
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Agree that trust plays a significant role. Since the question is regarding remote / distributed workers, and considering Project Management Processes, In my view effectiveness of Stakeholder Management & Communication Management should go a long way in addressing the trust aspect between PM & remote/distributed workers.
Saving Changes...
Michael DelaneyPartner| Delaney Management LLCWest Chester, Pa, United States
Trust is an important aspect for any team and more so when working remotely. The key is having the discipline to stay focused and on track. Saving Changes...
RAJESH K LProject Manager, PMP| Bharat Electronics, Bengaluru, IndiaBengaluru, Karnataka, India
Jul 03, 2018 8:48 PM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
...
It should be based on productivity and performance yes, but still the trust issues are real, and are displayed on both sides (managers and remote workers) so they need to be addressed. Part of addressing it is through performance/productivity measures.
Agree that trust plays a significant role. Since the question is regarding remote / distributed workers, and considering Project Management Processes, In my view effectiveness of Stakeholder Management & Communication Management should go a long way in addressing the trust aspect between PM & remote/distributed workers. Saving Changes...
Tamer Zeyad SadiqAssistant Cost Manager| Turner & TownsendRiyadh, Ar Riyad, Saudi Arabia
Sometimes!!! Saving Changes...
Anton OosthuizenSenior Business Analyst / Project Manager| Self EmployedPretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
The inability to trust in these situations is more a 'it's me, not you' thing. If as a manager you cannot trust your people to work without supervision then
a) you have built the wrong team with the wrong people. This is also typically a 'manager' who likes to tell people what to do.
b) you lack the confidence that you are in control i.e. you do not believe people will follow your instructions just by telling them to, they must be in a position where you can check up on them.
c) your own work ethic might be questionable so you are thinking more about what you would be doing and not what they will.
I personally never cared where or when people worked, as long as the quality of the work produced is up to standard with respect to time and content. But this is because I've worked remotely for most of my life and I understands the discipline required to make it work.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Jul 04, 2018 2:59 AM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Yes, a theory X manager doesn't do at all well with remote workers.