One thing that doesn't balances out is how hard it is to get your PMP certification but on the other hand how lose is PMI their audits on PM experience when filling for your PMP application form. Lately I've been involved in helping a few people mostly as "coaching" what's around CAPM/PMP and realised how sad what people put on their application. I'm not the one to judge but most people that I've helped so far have no clue what a project is. Most of the example fir exactly their 4500 hours of PM experience and is purely operations and not project work. Why when getting CISSP or CISM you need to be endorsed to prove your experience and not to get PMP certification blows my mind! I was short on hours so couldn't take my PMP so I had to do CAPM first and had to bust my a** to obtain it. I think PMI has to wake up and realised that they are handing out certifications to a lot of people that have been cheating on their applications. Saving Changes...
I work for a PMI REP which offers PMP prep courses, and some of my students have been audited and had to re-submit their applications a few times so the process is not just a formality.
I don't recall anyone having difficulty with getting the education prerequisites for the application accepted but I have seen a number of folks struggle with their experience submissions with the auditors not considering certain submissions to reflect project leadership experience.
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Obviously, PMI made a choice on how to assess your experience. Because they only audit a portion of applicants, it is possible to submit false claims and have them accepted.
While it is not ideal, you do have to recognize a few things that make it difficutl for such applicants to not fail.
Should your application be accepted, you have the first moderation ticket which is the price of the exam. You have to pay a not insignificant amount of money to take the exam.
Second of all, there is the exam itself. As most colleagues would tell you, the PMP is not a breeze! Most questions are situational. This makes it very difficult to answer appropriately based solely on knowledge.
Finally, there is the market. You may have the gumption to submit false statements, pay the fee, make it through the exam, and agree to an already-violated code of ethics. You will not be able to hold a project manager job for very long.
At the end of the day, PMI chose to trust applicants, with the understanding that it probably devalues the certification in some people's eyes.
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1 reply by Fletcher Moyo
Jul 08, 2019 7:09 PM
Fletcher Moyo
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Well said, Sir. I was searching for the right way to frame it but you hit the nail on the head there. Thank you Martin for bringing this issue forward as well. It does happen and is very hard for those that put in the time and hard work to earn it fair and square. But all that will reflect in the kind of leader you will be at the end of the day
Obviously, PMI made a choice on how to assess your experience. Because they only audit a portion of applicants, it is possible to submit false claims and have them accepted.
While it is not ideal, you do have to recognize a few things that make it difficutl for such applicants to not fail.
Should your application be accepted, you have the first moderation ticket which is the price of the exam. You have to pay a not insignificant amount of money to take the exam.
Second of all, there is the exam itself. As most colleagues would tell you, the PMP is not a breeze! Most questions are situational. This makes it very difficult to answer appropriately based solely on knowledge.
Finally, there is the market. You may have the gumption to submit false statements, pay the fee, make it through the exam, and agree to an already-violated code of ethics. You will not be able to hold a project manager job for very long.
At the end of the day, PMI chose to trust applicants, with the understanding that it probably devalues the certification in some people's eyes.
Well said, Sir. I was searching for the right way to frame it but you hit the nail on the head there. Thank you Martin for bringing this issue forward as well. It does happen and is very hard for those that put in the time and hard work to earn it fair and square. But all that will reflect in the kind of leader you will be at the end of the day Saving Changes...
DORA LUZ MejiaCEO| IT ExploreEnvigado, Antioquia, Colombia
Agree with Kiron. The experience need to be in project management scope. Some folks are not differentiating project management of some rutinary work in organizations. I think PMI is doing the right thing on making that clear requirement. If the person is registering a different kind of experience is doing wrong and maybe is not doing ethical submission for the certification. Saving Changes...
My point is not the hours required but rather the audit process. From what I saw a lot of people just roll the dice with PM experience requirements. It's worth a trip to some of the Facebook groups that are around right now. "Can i put my PMP study hours towards PMP experience hours"? "Or my Phd?" How do you answer that?
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2 replies by DORA LUZ Mejia and Stéphane Parent
Jul 09, 2019 9:17 PM
DORA LUZ Mejia
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study hours is different to experience. clearly the audit process need to be aware of this kind of issues. But my point is that if some one is submmiting a certification with study hours instead of experience hours or replacing experience in PM with not-related experience clearly is violating the ethics in the process. We do not need that kind of professionals with the credential.
Jul 10, 2019 10:41 AM
Stéphane Parent
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It depends, Martin. Did the persons treat PMP study or PhD as projects? If they did, they should have specific project management hours, separate from their study hours, that can count.
(Of course, it begs the question: would you study for your PMP before you apply for it just to get project management experience?)
The problem, of course, is if you have to ask the question after the fact, then you likely did not purposely manage it as a project. Otherwise, you would not be asking the question.
Saving Changes...
DORA LUZ MejiaCEO| IT ExploreEnvigado, Antioquia, Colombia
Jul 09, 2019 4:59 PM
Replying to Martin Premont
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My point is not the hours required but rather the audit process. From what I saw a lot of people just roll the dice with PM experience requirements. It's worth a trip to some of the Facebook groups that are around right now. "Can i put my PMP study hours towards PMP experience hours"? "Or my Phd?" How do you answer that?
study hours is different to experience. clearly the audit process need to be aware of this kind of issues. But my point is that if some one is submmiting a certification with study hours instead of experience hours or replacing experience in PM with not-related experience clearly is violating the ethics in the process. We do not need that kind of professionals with the credential. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jul 09, 2019 4:59 PM
Replying to Martin Premont
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My point is not the hours required but rather the audit process. From what I saw a lot of people just roll the dice with PM experience requirements. It's worth a trip to some of the Facebook groups that are around right now. "Can i put my PMP study hours towards PMP experience hours"? "Or my Phd?" How do you answer that?
It depends, Martin. Did the persons treat PMP study or PhD as projects? If they did, they should have specific project management hours, separate from their study hours, that can count.
(Of course, it begs the question: would you study for your PMP before you apply for it just to get project management experience?)
The problem, of course, is if you have to ask the question after the fact, then you likely did not purposely manage it as a project. Otherwise, you would not be asking the question. Saving Changes...
