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Topics: Procurement Management
Seller Proposals: Input, Output or Both
PMBOK 6 under conduct procurement shows “Seller proposals” as an input ONLY.

An OUTPUT from one perspective
Procurement Doc = Advertising + Bidder Conference = Seller Proposal

An INPUT from another perspective
Seller proposal + Source selection criteria = Proposal Analysis = Selected seller

Any special reason why it’s shown as only an input in PMBOK 6 Conduct Procurement?
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If you check is not seller proposals only. It is procurement documentation too. On the other side, organizational project assessts is the only component related to procurement. So, you have all you need to conduct procurements.
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1 reply by Richard Darko
Jan 30, 2020 6:25 AM
Richard Darko
...
Thanks Sergio. But I think you didn’t get my question fully. It is not about the adequacy of listed inputs for conduct procurement. What I am refering to is as the buyer part of the processes of conducting procurement is TO OBTAIN (that means output) sellers proposal.

But you also need to eventually obtain the selected vendors.

Sellers Proposal is thus at one point an output. And then later becomes an input.
The PMBoK is written from the owner perspective, so outputs are RfPs and inputs proposals.
Looking from the seller perspective, there is another project, owned by the seller, with input RfP and output proposal.

Have been on both sides.
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1 reply by Richard Darko
Jan 30, 2020 6:29 AM
Richard Darko
...
Thanks Thomas. I am looking at it purely / solely from the owner (buyers) perspectives.

Say I need to build a wall. I have done the make/buy analysis and decided to outsource. I will need proposals from invited vendors. That’s an output at one point in the conduct procurement. Then later I will have to analyze these proposals to select a vendor. At this time it’s an input. I am wondering why PMBOK didn’t capture this nuance.
Jan 30, 2020 4:45 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
If you check is not seller proposals only. It is procurement documentation too. On the other side, organizational project assessts is the only component related to procurement. So, you have all you need to conduct procurements.
Thanks Sergio. But I think you didn’t get my question fully. It is not about the adequacy of listed inputs for conduct procurement. What I am refering to is as the buyer part of the processes of conducting procurement is TO OBTAIN (that means output) sellers proposal.

But you also need to eventually obtain the selected vendors.

Sellers Proposal is thus at one point an output. And then later becomes an input.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jan 30, 2020 8:47 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
Now I understand your point. But I think you are not understanding the whole procurement area dynamic. And not problem, lot of people do not undertand that as stated by the PMI. The key is to clear understand what the procurement plan is and mainly the Plan Procurement Management process. Key in the plan is the list of preaproved sellers (if any), bid documents, procurement SOW and selection criteria. The only thing you have to do when is time to adquire which the project needs is to execute the procurement management plan. Its take place in Conduct Procurement. What you have to do at this time is creating the bid documents, send them to the list or preaproved providers (if any) and wait for the answers. You will find all these in one statement "obtaining seller responces". Then, seller responces is not an output, is an input form the point of view of conduct. Inside conduct is the activity (implicit at least) of creating the procurement documents, publish them in the planned way and get the sellers proposals.
Jan 30, 2020 5:50 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
The PMBoK is written from the owner perspective, so outputs are RfPs and inputs proposals.
Looking from the seller perspective, there is another project, owned by the seller, with input RfP and output proposal.

Have been on both sides.
Thanks Thomas. I am looking at it purely / solely from the owner (buyers) perspectives.

Say I need to build a wall. I have done the make/buy analysis and decided to outsource. I will need proposals from invited vendors. That’s an output at one point in the conduct procurement. Then later I will have to analyze these proposals to select a vendor. At this time it’s an input. I am wondering why PMBOK didn’t capture this nuance.
...
1 reply by Thomas Walenta
Jan 30, 2020 7:25 AM
Thomas Walenta
...
Hi Richard,

as I see it:

the output of a make/buy analysis is not any proposal, it is the decision to buy and further down the road the procurement documents including the RfP. A proposal is always - as the name suggests - proposed by someone, in this case the sellers who are asked to bid. So any proposal can only be a input for the buyer/owner, or they had to propose to themselves.
OUPTUT means AFTER doing this you GET that.

In the first instance after advertising and conducting bidders conference.


INPUT means BEFORE you do this you NEED that.

In the second instance before you do proposal evaluation.
Jan 30, 2020 6:29 AM
Replying to Richard Darko
...
Thanks Thomas. I am looking at it purely / solely from the owner (buyers) perspectives.

Say I need to build a wall. I have done the make/buy analysis and decided to outsource. I will need proposals from invited vendors. That’s an output at one point in the conduct procurement. Then later I will have to analyze these proposals to select a vendor. At this time it’s an input. I am wondering why PMBOK didn’t capture this nuance.
Hi Richard,

as I see it:

the output of a make/buy analysis is not any proposal, it is the decision to buy and further down the road the procurement documents including the RfP. A proposal is always - as the name suggests - proposed by someone, in this case the sellers who are asked to bid. So any proposal can only be a input for the buyer/owner, or they had to propose to themselves.
...
1 reply by Richard Darko
Jan 30, 2020 8:20 AM
Richard Darko
...
Thanks Thomas.

Make or buy isn’t really a part of the question though.

What I was trying to arrive at is say you want to outsource something. (Won’t call it a wall and won’t reference make or buy as an activity to arrive at decision to outsource).

The emphasis is sellers proposal. At one point it’s an output of an activity. At another point it’s also an input to another activity.

Specifically
Advertising and bidders conference in the first

And

Proposal analysis in the second.

I am hoping this explanation is clearer now.

Next is wondering if there is any possible reason why PMBOK didn’t capture it as both.
Jan 30, 2020 7:25 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Hi Richard,

as I see it:

the output of a make/buy analysis is not any proposal, it is the decision to buy and further down the road the procurement documents including the RfP. A proposal is always - as the name suggests - proposed by someone, in this case the sellers who are asked to bid. So any proposal can only be a input for the buyer/owner, or they had to propose to themselves.
Thanks Thomas.

Make or buy isn’t really a part of the question though.

What I was trying to arrive at is say you want to outsource something. (Won’t call it a wall and won’t reference make or buy as an activity to arrive at decision to outsource).

The emphasis is sellers proposal. At one point it’s an output of an activity. At another point it’s also an input to another activity.

Specifically
Advertising and bidders conference in the first

And

Proposal analysis in the second.

I am hoping this explanation is clearer now.

Next is wondering if there is any possible reason why PMBOK didn’t capture it as both.
Sergio made good points.
Jan 30, 2020 6:25 AM
Replying to Richard Darko
...
Thanks Sergio. But I think you didn’t get my question fully. It is not about the adequacy of listed inputs for conduct procurement. What I am refering to is as the buyer part of the processes of conducting procurement is TO OBTAIN (that means output) sellers proposal.

But you also need to eventually obtain the selected vendors.

Sellers Proposal is thus at one point an output. And then later becomes an input.
Now I understand your point. But I think you are not understanding the whole procurement area dynamic. And not problem, lot of people do not undertand that as stated by the PMI. The key is to clear understand what the procurement plan is and mainly the Plan Procurement Management process. Key in the plan is the list of preaproved sellers (if any), bid documents, procurement SOW and selection criteria. The only thing you have to do when is time to adquire which the project needs is to execute the procurement management plan. Its take place in Conduct Procurement. What you have to do at this time is creating the bid documents, send them to the list or preaproved providers (if any) and wait for the answers. You will find all these in one statement "obtaining seller responces". Then, seller responces is not an output, is an input form the point of view of conduct. Inside conduct is the activity (implicit at least) of creating the procurement documents, publish them in the planned way and get the sellers proposals.
...
1 reply by Richard Darko
Jan 30, 2020 9:25 AM
Richard Darko
...
Thanks Sergio.

According to PMBOK the bid documents are an output of plan procurement though. Not conduct procurement.

The sellers response is same as the sellers proposal. And this is what you get AFTER you issuing out your RFP or RFQs

Since it’s coming after at this point based on the general definition of output (the sellers proposal) is also an output although PMBOK doesn’t also capture its dual nature.
Jan 30, 2020 8:47 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
Now I understand your point. But I think you are not understanding the whole procurement area dynamic. And not problem, lot of people do not undertand that as stated by the PMI. The key is to clear understand what the procurement plan is and mainly the Plan Procurement Management process. Key in the plan is the list of preaproved sellers (if any), bid documents, procurement SOW and selection criteria. The only thing you have to do when is time to adquire which the project needs is to execute the procurement management plan. Its take place in Conduct Procurement. What you have to do at this time is creating the bid documents, send them to the list or preaproved providers (if any) and wait for the answers. You will find all these in one statement "obtaining seller responces". Then, seller responces is not an output, is an input form the point of view of conduct. Inside conduct is the activity (implicit at least) of creating the procurement documents, publish them in the planned way and get the sellers proposals.
Thanks Sergio.

According to PMBOK the bid documents are an output of plan procurement though. Not conduct procurement.

The sellers response is same as the sellers proposal. And this is what you get AFTER you issuing out your RFP or RFQs

Since it’s coming after at this point based on the general definition of output (the sellers proposal) is also an output although PMBOK doesn’t also capture its dual nature.
...
1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jan 30, 2020 9:37 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
...
I know. What I tried to say is this: the point here is the moment when you distribute the information to the sellers. PMBOK said nothing about that. So, that´s the reason you see "seller proposals" as an input. When "conduct proposals" the sellers have sent the information to you.
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