Hello Everyone,
many heard about the DA "Disciplined Agile" certificates and it's partnership with PMI, my question is that what about the PMI-ACP, will it be phased out and replaced by the new DA body ?
for me it doesn't make any sense if someone is holding ACP to go through a new track and pay a lot of many to get more or less the same amount of knowledge specially if he is an Agile practitioner who has practical experience on Agile
waiting for your feedback Saving Changes...
Alexandre CostaScrum Master| Integer Consulting - Pictet technologiesLoures, Portugal
Haitham,
This topic already was discussed here, i am sure that most of the members will give you diplomatic answers and in the end will tell you to wait and have faith in PMI. So in the end you will stay with the same doubts and without knowing what path to take. There are to many Bias when discussion this topics because there are many people profiting with the changes or that do not give real importance to the certification.
The ACP is not aimed at agile leads but rather at practitioners in general. It is also agnostic of any particular method, framework or toolkit. As such, PMI is saying right now that there are no plans to replace it with one of the DA certifications. In fact, if you look at the DA certification roadmap (https://disciplinedagileconsortium.org/roadmap) you would see the ACP referenced there.
Kiron Saving Changes...
Wade HarshmanScrum Master| GDITIndianapolis, In, United States
Kind of interesting, in fact, that the ACP is the only certification they'll recognize in lieu of experience. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
I fully disagree with @Kiron here. But returning to the point, ACP is a generalistic certification while DA is an specific certification. Is like in my case: I have PMI-ACP and I have all Agile Consortium certifications which are DSDM oriented.
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Feb 12, 2020 10:57 AM
Kiron Bondale
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Sergio - come on, you can't drop a teaser like that and not provide the "meat" - what are we disagreeing about today :-) ?
DA is an agnostic toolkit - you can follow any method or framework and still be aligned with DA values and principles. The ACP exam is fairly Scrum-centric in that regard so while it does also check against Manifesto values & principles I wouldn't call it purely general.
I fully disagree with @Kiron here. But returning to the point, ACP is a generalistic certification while DA is an specific certification. Is like in my case: I have PMI-ACP and I have all Agile Consortium certifications which are DSDM oriented.
Sergio - come on, you can't drop a teaser like that and not provide the "meat" - what are we disagreeing about today :-) ?
DA is an agnostic toolkit - you can follow any method or framework and still be aligned with DA values and principles. The ACP exam is fairly Scrum-centric in that regard so while it does also check against Manifesto values & principles I wouldn't call it purely general.
Kiron
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Feb 12, 2020 12:38 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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When I took the exam (I was the third certified in the world, the first one in latin america, it does not matter for me, it was the PMI said) that´s not the case, It was not Scrum centric at all. But perhaps it changed. And at this time, if you see the list on recommended reading, is too far do not be "leads oriented". I hope we do not fall in the temptation to support the PMI business and say that everything is DA or nothing. (I do not believe you are in this side). I use DA from the very begining when nobody know about it - or just few, few people know about it. (sorry Scott if you read this line but to be honest, as other type of things, no matter you created something that is one of the best things to use, before PMI put the marketing machine they have on DA it was not known as other too less valuable things). And if you read my post in linkedin or here you will know I support the use of DA before the PMI take control of it. Not the same with the other framework the PMI has adquired because in my personal opinion (and I can sustain) has no sustance and consistence.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Feb 12, 2020 10:57 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Sergio - come on, you can't drop a teaser like that and not provide the "meat" - what are we disagreeing about today :-) ?
DA is an agnostic toolkit - you can follow any method or framework and still be aligned with DA values and principles. The ACP exam is fairly Scrum-centric in that regard so while it does also check against Manifesto values & principles I wouldn't call it purely general.
Kiron
When I took the exam (I was the third certified in the world, the first one in latin america, it does not matter for me, it was the PMI said) that´s not the case, It was not Scrum centric at all. But perhaps it changed. And at this time, if you see the list on recommended reading, is too far do not be "leads oriented". I hope we do not fall in the temptation to support the PMI business and say that everything is DA or nothing. (I do not believe you are in this side). I use DA from the very begining when nobody know about it - or just few, few people know about it. (sorry Scott if you read this line but to be honest, as other type of things, no matter you created something that is one of the best things to use, before PMI put the marketing machine they have on DA it was not known as other too less valuable things). And if you read my post in linkedin or here you will know I support the use of DA before the PMI take control of it. Not the same with the other framework the PMI has adquired because in my personal opinion (and I can sustain) has no sustance and consistence.
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Feb 12, 2020 5:20 PM
Kiron Bondale
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When I wrote the ACP exam in 2017 it was pretty Scrum-centric. Little bit of lean, little bit of Kanban & XP, but mostly Scrum references. It does cover more than Scrum does, but so does DA with its multiple lifecycle options, and arguably, DA has a richer set of values & principles than those in the original Manifesto (which is what the ACP exam tests).
Regardless, both ACP and DA certifications have orders of magnitude fewer certified folks than Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org.
When I took the exam (I was the third certified in the world, the first one in latin america, it does not matter for me, it was the PMI said) that´s not the case, It was not Scrum centric at all. But perhaps it changed. And at this time, if you see the list on recommended reading, is too far do not be "leads oriented". I hope we do not fall in the temptation to support the PMI business and say that everything is DA or nothing. (I do not believe you are in this side). I use DA from the very begining when nobody know about it - or just few, few people know about it. (sorry Scott if you read this line but to be honest, as other type of things, no matter you created something that is one of the best things to use, before PMI put the marketing machine they have on DA it was not known as other too less valuable things). And if you read my post in linkedin or here you will know I support the use of DA before the PMI take control of it. Not the same with the other framework the PMI has adquired because in my personal opinion (and I can sustain) has no sustance and consistence.
When I wrote the ACP exam in 2017 it was pretty Scrum-centric. Little bit of lean, little bit of Kanban & XP, but mostly Scrum references. It does cover more than Scrum does, but so does DA with its multiple lifecycle options, and arguably, DA has a richer set of values & principles than those in the original Manifesto (which is what the ACP exam tests).
Regardless, both ACP and DA certifications have orders of magnitude fewer certified folks than Scrum Alliance and Scrum.org.
Kiron
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2 replies by Sergio Luis Conte and Susan Marangos
Aug 14, 2020 1:35 PM
Susan Marangos
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True, but I've seen the PMI-ACP listed as a preferred requirement in some job listings (sometimes as PMP and/or PMI-ACP). I've yet to see any of the DA certificates listed. That, of course, doesn't mean there isn't value in the DA certificates but I generally think it's prudent to hit your major certificates first that someone will want and THEN expand.
Aug 15, 2020 7:35 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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@Kiron "write the exam" kills "first certificated in Latam".
you won with checkmate...jejeje
Thanks Everyone for your comments, as an ACP instructor i agree somehow with that ACP focuses more on Scrum as the most usable Agie framework, but i do see ACP valuable contents specially in making you a practitioner with set of simple tools and concepts, as an Agile practitioner, i apply a lot of what in ACP and this is what made it valuable Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
The problem is lot of people confuse XP and Scrum (I am not saying people here, please is not my intention). In fact, in the begining, Scrum was created as a framework over XP. If you search for the original papers about Scrum you will see the difference with today Scrum Saving Changes...
Stelian ROMANProject Manager| MicroSafetyCarlingford, New South Wales, Australia
