Stephen RobinProject Analyst Trainee| Ministry of Works and TransportArima, Ari, Trinidad and Tobago
I don't know how many of you are aware of the Commonwealth of Nations, an association of 56 sovereign nations which support each other and work together towards international goals. With their common heritage in language, culture, law, education, and democratic traditions, among other things, Commonwealth countries are able to work together in an atmosphere of greater trust and understanding than generally prevails among nations.
By the same token, there exists the Commonwealth Family is a network of associations, organizations, and charities affiliated with the Commonwealth of Nations. List here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Family
All are designed to advance the principles and policies of the Commonwealth itself.
To that end would the establishment of a commonwealth association for project managers be valid and warranted? Or would it become redundant due to the already existing number of project management organizations?
Stephen RobinProject Analyst Trainee| Ministry of Works and TransportArima, Ari, Trinidad and Tobago
Aug 31, 2022 8:58 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
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As to PMI's financial report 2020 published on their website, revenue is 318 million, and more than half a billion are reserves. Expenses of 266 million in 2020.
I would not think Commonwealth is the best organisation to promote PM globally. For one it is a remnant if the late British empire with a unethical and predatory reputation, then the global coverage is limited, US based organizations like PMI are unlikely to embrace a UK centered initiative and the PM setup in UK (APM, IPA/MPA and chartered PMs) is unlikely to support an international buildup.
Your idea is worthwhile though, if attached to a truly global institution like the UN or ISO. On the other hand, making PM an accepted profession must be done by nations (all professions are based on national laws).
Thanks for the input and that tidbit about the PMI's financial report.
I would agree the Commonwealth is not the best organization to promote PM globally but rather in the nations that fall under them. The Commonwealth is not truly global but "pseudo international" in a sense as to where its influence lies which we already know are 56 nations.
Global institutions like the UN for example have their own like the United Nations Office of Project Services. While it's not an association per se but more of a unit under the UN.
The ISO on the other hand is truly global but is focused on standards across the board with some standards on project management.
Moreover, your point on making PM an accepted profession being done by nations is an outstanding point. As the phrase goes, the buck stops here. However, having an association be a guiding force to nations for much-needed change is vital through nudging, advocacy, outreach, and lobbying(Absolutely not a fan of this one but a common tactic by associations and can go south really quickly. Also contrarian to an organization that heavily promotes democracy).
Thoughts? Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
I have read all the comments and can't determine what problem you are looking to solve. Are you trying to provide a solution without an objective. I see such an association as more bureaucracy sucking up energy and resources that could be better spent elsewhere.
As said by others, the common element to the nations that form the Commonwealth is earlier conquest and ownership by England during the colonization age and possible remnants of English law and political structure. I don't see that as a building block to more effective project delivery.
I give you another chance to define what value such an association would add to project delivery.
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1 reply by Stephen Robin
Aug 31, 2022 7:24 PM
Stephen Robin
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Peter
There is already a set agenda, activities, and objectives formed by the Commonwealth of Nations which all organizations under it are expected to follow.
I am simply going with what is presented. I can't remold something that already has an established structure.
Your point on the bureaucracy is valid but the commonwealth associations aren't run or managed by government officials and bureaucrats.
Each professional association Eg Commonwealth Engineers Council comprises primarily practitioners in the field or at least academics.
That would only be applied to the sole association group called Commonwealth Local Government Forum which brings together local authorities, their national associations and the ministries responsible for local government in the member countries of the Commonwealth.
Your point concerning the history which any person can agree is unpleasant, to say the least, would not be really relevant to building blocks unless the Commonwealth is emulating practices of the former past British Empire. If that is indeed true with strong evidence, then the entire organization should be disbanded with no remnants remaining.
Critically I noticed you have zoned into in particular part of project management namely project delivery. It is indeed imperative but your point can be applied to any part of project management.
Our discussion can easily be turned into a segment of whataboutism to what value a proposed association would bring to a specific area in project management and what it hasn't addressed.
The overall real value of such an organization and its benefits to the project management community is still to be fully determined. There is no chance I need from you but simply your thoughts and perspectives on the subject matter. We are at a point where we are merely theorizing on something that hasn't been put into planning and implemented. The Commonwealth Association of Project Managers does not exist.
For any organization that intends to bring value to its stakeholders, we should expect betterment, not perfection.
Saving Changes...
Stephen RobinProject Analyst Trainee| Ministry of Works and TransportArima, Ari, Trinidad and Tobago
Aug 31, 2022 3:56 PM
Replying to Peter Rapin
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I have read all the comments and can't determine what problem you are looking to solve. Are you trying to provide a solution without an objective. I see such an association as more bureaucracy sucking up energy and resources that could be better spent elsewhere.
As said by others, the common element to the nations that form the Commonwealth is earlier conquest and ownership by England during the colonization age and possible remnants of English law and political structure. I don't see that as a building block to more effective project delivery.
I give you another chance to define what value such an association would add to project delivery.
Peter
There is already a set agenda, activities, and objectives formed by the Commonwealth of Nations which all organizations under it are expected to follow.
I am simply going with what is presented. I can't remold something that already has an established structure.
Your point on the bureaucracy is valid but the commonwealth associations aren't run or managed by government officials and bureaucrats.
Each professional association Eg Commonwealth Engineers Council comprises primarily practitioners in the field or at least academics.
That would only be applied to the sole association group called Commonwealth Local Government Forum which brings together local authorities, their national associations and the ministries responsible for local government in the member countries of the Commonwealth.
Your point concerning the history which any person can agree is unpleasant, to say the least, would not be really relevant to building blocks unless the Commonwealth is emulating practices of the former past British Empire. If that is indeed true with strong evidence, then the entire organization should be disbanded with no remnants remaining.
Critically I noticed you have zoned into in particular part of project management namely project delivery. It is indeed imperative but your point can be applied to any part of project management.
Our discussion can easily be turned into a segment of whataboutism to what value a proposed association would bring to a specific area in project management and what it hasn't addressed.
The overall real value of such an organization and its benefits to the project management community is still to be fully determined. There is no chance I need from you but simply your thoughts and perspectives on the subject matter. We are at a point where we are merely theorizing on something that hasn't been put into planning and implemented. The Commonwealth Association of Project Managers does not exist.
For any organization that intends to bring value to its stakeholders, we should expect betterment, not perfection.
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1 reply by Peter Rapin
Aug 31, 2022 8:25 PM
Peter Rapin
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In your fourth sentence you make reference to "Commonwealth Engineers Council". I have been a registered active Professional Engineer in Canada for over 50 years and have never come across this organization. A quick search and read suggests that this is an institution of institutions rather than individual memberships. I have never knowingly contributed financially to this Council.
If the concept for a Commonwealth Association for Project Managers is similar to the Engineers Council I don't see its value to the practitioner, in Canada anyway.
- My thoughts and perspectives to do with as you wish.
Saving Changes...
Peter RapinSubject Matter Expect; Project Delivery| Independent ConsultantOntario, Canada
Aug 31, 2022 7:24 PM
Replying to Stephen Robin
...
Peter
There is already a set agenda, activities, and objectives formed by the Commonwealth of Nations which all organizations under it are expected to follow.
I am simply going with what is presented. I can't remold something that already has an established structure.
Your point on the bureaucracy is valid but the commonwealth associations aren't run or managed by government officials and bureaucrats.
Each professional association Eg Commonwealth Engineers Council comprises primarily practitioners in the field or at least academics.
That would only be applied to the sole association group called Commonwealth Local Government Forum which brings together local authorities, their national associations and the ministries responsible for local government in the member countries of the Commonwealth.
Your point concerning the history which any person can agree is unpleasant, to say the least, would not be really relevant to building blocks unless the Commonwealth is emulating practices of the former past British Empire. If that is indeed true with strong evidence, then the entire organization should be disbanded with no remnants remaining.
Critically I noticed you have zoned into in particular part of project management namely project delivery. It is indeed imperative but your point can be applied to any part of project management.
Our discussion can easily be turned into a segment of whataboutism to what value a proposed association would bring to a specific area in project management and what it hasn't addressed.
The overall real value of such an organization and its benefits to the project management community is still to be fully determined. There is no chance I need from you but simply your thoughts and perspectives on the subject matter. We are at a point where we are merely theorizing on something that hasn't been put into planning and implemented. The Commonwealth Association of Project Managers does not exist.
For any organization that intends to bring value to its stakeholders, we should expect betterment, not perfection.
In your fourth sentence you make reference to "Commonwealth Engineers Council". I have been a registered active Professional Engineer in Canada for over 50 years and have never come across this organization. A quick search and read suggests that this is an institution of institutions rather than individual memberships. I have never knowingly contributed financially to this Council.
If the concept for a Commonwealth Association for Project Managers is similar to the Engineers Council I don't see its value to the practitioner, in Canada anyway.
- My thoughts and perspectives to do with as you wish.
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1 reply by Stephen Robin
Aug 31, 2022 9:51 PM
Stephen Robin
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It depends on the commonwealth association as not all of them follow the same approach. This is also a key point I addressed with Kiron on how such an organization would be formed.
The Commonwealth Lawyers Association is a legitimate example of an individual membership group. My point on the example was to refute your point that the associations are made up of government officials and bureaucrats. Not the best example as it is a council rather than an association like the others but the point is clear.
At the end of the day, your thoughts and perspectives are always welcome and I value your contribution greatly.
Saving Changes...
Stephen RobinProject Analyst Trainee| Ministry of Works and TransportArima, Ari, Trinidad and Tobago
Aug 31, 2022 8:25 PM
Replying to Peter Rapin
...
In your fourth sentence you make reference to "Commonwealth Engineers Council". I have been a registered active Professional Engineer in Canada for over 50 years and have never come across this organization. A quick search and read suggests that this is an institution of institutions rather than individual memberships. I have never knowingly contributed financially to this Council.
If the concept for a Commonwealth Association for Project Managers is similar to the Engineers Council I don't see its value to the practitioner, in Canada anyway.
- My thoughts and perspectives to do with as you wish.
It depends on the commonwealth association as not all of them follow the same approach. This is also a key point I addressed with Kiron on how such an organization would be formed.
The Commonwealth Lawyers Association is a legitimate example of an individual membership group. My point on the example was to refute your point that the associations are made up of government officials and bureaucrats. Not the best example as it is a council rather than an association like the others but the point is clear.
At the end of the day, your thoughts and perspectives are always welcome and I value your contribution greatly. Saving Changes...
It depends on its vision, mission, and performance. if it brings significant value to the PM community, then it will survive. otherwise, I do not see any chance compare to compete with PMI.
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1 reply by Stephen Robin
Sep 01, 2022 10:58 AM
Stephen Robin
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Thanks for your input Abolfazi. This is the main point I have been driving home since the beginning. If certain requirements and conditions are met, it can work. If not, it would not survive.
Saving Changes...
Stephen RobinProject Analyst Trainee| Ministry of Works and TransportArima, Ari, Trinidad and Tobago
Sep 01, 2022 10:08 AM
Replying to Abolfazl Yousefi Darestani
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It depends on its vision, mission, and performance. if it brings significant value to the PM community, then it will survive. otherwise, I do not see any chance compare to compete with PMI.
Thanks for your input Abolfazi. This is the main point I have been driving home since the beginning. If certain requirements and conditions are met, it can work. If not, it would not survive. Saving Changes...
Stephen RobinProject Analyst Trainee| Ministry of Works and TransportArima, Ari, Trinidad and Tobago
