Hi! I am a PMP without a degree. To become certified, I had to demonstrate 5 years’ experience (under audit) leading projects. Since then, I have worked another 1.5 years as a PM consultant / contractor. The firm I work for classifies a Jr PM as having 2-5 years’ experience and an Intermediate PM as having 5-10 years’ experience. Where does a newly minted PMP fall within this framework? Would I be considered a Jr as I have only had my PMP a short time, or an Intermediate given the five years PM experience prior to certification. Are there any resources available to help me better understand where I fit. Thank you for your time. Saving Changes...
I would not be concerned with your job title other than you feel you are currently placed appropriately in your current organization. There are no standard terms.
With 6.5 years of experience, I would call you a PM. I would consider a jr. PM someone with 1-2 years experience. Job offerings for a sr. PM are usually 10+, but maybe less with an advanced degree. In a numbered level system of say 1-5 where 1 would probably be jr., 2-3 would be just PM, 4 would be sr. and 5 would be principal. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
The way I always managed my staff was:
* you are junior if you don't have a specialty/certification
* you are intermediate if you have one specialty/certification
* you are senior if you have more than one specialty/certification
Given you have your PMP, I would classify you as intermediate. Saving Changes...
There is no standard related to this. In some companies, not having a certification prevents you from having the title "Project Manager" whereas in others, they don't care whether you have one or not. My perspective is that it should be based on your competency and that is better reflected by the depth and breadth of your PM experience.
Six and a half years is a fair amount of experience so I'd consider you a project manager, not a junior PM.
I'm also not a fan of the term "junior" - Associate PM has a little more dignity.
Kiron
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jan 21, 2023 8:11 AM
Stéphane Parent
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Yes, I also used associate for junior. It, of course, begs the question, what should be used instead of "senior": expert, master...?
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jan 21, 2023 7:51 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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There is no standard related to this. In some companies, not having a certification prevents you from having the title "Project Manager" whereas in others, they don't care whether you have one or not. My perspective is that it should be based on your competency and that is better reflected by the depth and breadth of your PM experience.
Six and a half years is a fair amount of experience so I'd consider you a project manager, not a junior PM.
I'm also not a fan of the term "junior" - Associate PM has a little more dignity.
Kiron
Yes, I also used associate for junior. It, of course, begs the question, what should be used instead of "senior": expert, master...?
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1 reply by Kiron Bondale
Jan 22, 2023 8:48 AM
Kiron Bondale
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Senior does tend to be the most common term used which I've encountered. I'd stay away from Expert or Master for multiple reasons including:
- no one can claim to be an Expert given the infinite diversity of project contexts. We are all learning...
- the term Master sets my teeth on edge for the same reason it does with Scrum Master...
A different approach which doesn't bring any baggage with it is the one I believe PMI had published in their CDF from a few years back: PM I, PM II, PM III
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Having the PMP is not the deciding factor on your classification, but your experience is and with 6.5 years of experience, I would say you fall in the Intermediate PM Category.
Classification differs from one organization to another based on their structures, size and culture but in all cases, how long you had your PMP is irrelevant and in general having a PMP is an asset but not a deciding factor. Saving Changes...
Yes, I also used associate for junior. It, of course, begs the question, what should be used instead of "senior": expert, master...?
Senior does tend to be the most common term used which I've encountered. I'd stay away from Expert or Master for multiple reasons including:
- no one can claim to be an Expert given the infinite diversity of project contexts. We are all learning...
- the term Master sets my teeth on edge for the same reason it does with Scrum Master...
A different approach which doesn't bring any baggage with it is the one I believe PMI had published in their CDF from a few years back: PM I, PM II, PM III
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3 replies by Keith Novak, Rami Kaibni, and Stéphane Parent
Jan 22, 2023 9:54 AM
Stéphane Parent
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The use of numbers is certainly less loaded. Of course, we would be constantly explaining the levels.
Jan 22, 2023 11:19 AM
Rami Kaibni
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I agree with your rationale. I never heard a title of Master Project Manager or Expert Project Manager.
Jan 22, 2023 1:57 PM
Keith Novak
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Where I started out it was all titles. Jr. was 1st year, then came Senior which immediately told me it was a silly system albeit I had a cool title, then specialist, then senior specialist etc.
I have seen the term Master but it was an evolution of political correctness. First it was Senior but that came across as ageist, so they changed it to Veteran but that offended military veterans so it became Master.
That may have come across as racist or perhaps sounded too much like old kung fu movies so they just went to a numbered system instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jan 22, 2023 8:48 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Senior does tend to be the most common term used which I've encountered. I'd stay away from Expert or Master for multiple reasons including:
- no one can claim to be an Expert given the infinite diversity of project contexts. We are all learning...
- the term Master sets my teeth on edge for the same reason it does with Scrum Master...
A different approach which doesn't bring any baggage with it is the one I believe PMI had published in their CDF from a few years back: PM I, PM II, PM III
The use of numbers is certainly less loaded. Of course, we would be constantly explaining the levels. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 22, 2023 8:48 AM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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Senior does tend to be the most common term used which I've encountered. I'd stay away from Expert or Master for multiple reasons including:
- no one can claim to be an Expert given the infinite diversity of project contexts. We are all learning...
- the term Master sets my teeth on edge for the same reason it does with Scrum Master...
A different approach which doesn't bring any baggage with it is the one I believe PMI had published in their CDF from a few years back: PM I, PM II, PM III
I agree with your rationale. I never heard a title of Master Project Manager or Expert Project Manager.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jan 22, 2023 11:53 AM
Stéphane Parent
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Ha! When I left Hewlett-Packard my position was project management expert
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Jan 22, 2023 11:19 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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I agree with your rationale. I never heard a title of Master Project Manager or Expert Project Manager.
Ha! When I left Hewlett-Packard my position was project management expert
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