Hi, everyone! I pass a project management course. According to my homework, I need to estimate effort of project in person-hours or person-days. I don't have aneither programmers nor QA-engineers nor even BAs or PMs among my aquaintances/friends. That's why I hope for you))
I have follow exact tasks for this project:
1. Add 3D-models of all garden elements, including gazebos, stones, benches, mini-waterfalls, fences, gates. I need just average time for one element
a) Find in the Internet and download those, that are in the Internet.
b) Create 3D-models of those elements, which weren't found in the Internet (I need average time for one element)
c) Integrate each element into the software (I need average time for one element)
2. Add knowledge base about plants compatibility among themselve, including pesticides influence.
a) Download information about every plnant
b) Add information about every plant into the software Saving Changes...
Unfortunate there isn't sufficient context to be able to provide even a rough level of magnitude top-down estimate, let alone a bottom-up detailed estimate.
You'd need to provide a lot more info about the scope of the project and the proposed approach to get some reasonable estimates.
You'd also need to provide some quantitative data - e.g. how many plants as item #2 is very open-ended.
Kiron
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1 reply by Vitaliy Zhdanov
Mar 09, 2023 3:22 PM
Vitaliy Zhdanov
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Thanks for your reply, Kiron!
I mean just avrage time for one plant or garden element. The ret I can count on my own
Unfortunate there isn't sufficient context to be able to provide even a rough level of magnitude top-down estimate, let alone a bottom-up detailed estimate.
You'd need to provide a lot more info about the scope of the project and the proposed approach to get some reasonable estimates.
You'd also need to provide some quantitative data - e.g. how many plants as item #2 is very open-ended.
Kiron
Thanks for your reply, Kiron!
I mean just avrage time for one plant or garden element. The ret I can count on my own Saving Changes...
It depends how much detail you need in each element. Look at some landscape architecture template tools for a baseline of what is out there. Usually they are a simple shapes that can be moved around on plan view drawings. They aren't all the same complexity. A flagstone could be created as a rectangular solid in a couple seconds including rendering with texture. A simple gazebo shape could take a few minutes to create.
Since it's a class, you could provide assumptions of a very simple solid (e.g. 1 minute) complex solid (e.g. 10 minutes). You could then say there are more simple shapes than complex shapes so a typical time would be 3 minutes. Now use the PERT formula for the statistical mean (low estimate + 4X most likely + high estimate)/6 and you have a statistical mean duration. (1+12+10)/6 = 3.8 minutes to create an average 3D basic solid.
Since it's a class, you don't have to prove it's right. You just need a reasonable basis for estimate.
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1 reply by Vitaliy Zhdanov
Mar 09, 2023 4:14 PM
Vitaliy Zhdanov
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Thank you very much for reply and exact data!
But what about integration of these elements into the software ? Just average time for one element
Maybe you, also, know how much time I need to writing core code and tests ? 10 developers, 7 QA-engineers and 160 work days? I need at least approximate answer. Just I don't know if that's 160 days or 3 years.
That's a software with level like AdobePhoshop or MathLAB.
It depends how much detail you need in each element. Look at some landscape architecture template tools for a baseline of what is out there. Usually they are a simple shapes that can be moved around on plan view drawings. They aren't all the same complexity. A flagstone could be created as a rectangular solid in a couple seconds including rendering with texture. A simple gazebo shape could take a few minutes to create.
Since it's a class, you could provide assumptions of a very simple solid (e.g. 1 minute) complex solid (e.g. 10 minutes). You could then say there are more simple shapes than complex shapes so a typical time would be 3 minutes. Now use the PERT formula for the statistical mean (low estimate + 4X most likely + high estimate)/6 and you have a statistical mean duration. (1+12+10)/6 = 3.8 minutes to create an average 3D basic solid.
Since it's a class, you don't have to prove it's right. You just need a reasonable basis for estimate.
Thank you very much for reply and exact data!
But what about integration of these elements into the software ? Just average time for one element
Maybe you, also, know how much time I need to writing core code and tests ? 10 developers, 7 QA-engineers and 160 work days? I need at least approximate answer. Just I don't know if that's 160 days or 3 years.
That's a software with level like AdobePhoshop or MathLAB. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
You have to understand Vitaliy that what we are all telling you is that our estimates is based on our own individual experience. You could literally get order of magnitude differences from this community.
Part of the problem is that everyone is at a different point in their software development maturity. Inexperienced software developers will often give more optimistic estimates based on coding only. The more mature develeopers will build additional activities in their estimates: planning, analysis, design, review, test, documentation...
Trust me, your instructor is not looking at the accuracy of your estimates. He wants to see your thinking process. As Keith suggests, your assumptions will go a long way to explain your thoroughness.
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1 reply by Vitaliy Zhdanov
Mar 10, 2023 7:05 AM
Vitaliy Zhdanov
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One reply is enough for me. It's not real project. I only study. This project is imagine. Doesn't even matter who answers me - a developere with big experience or middle
You have to understand Vitaliy that what we are all telling you is that our estimates is based on our own individual experience. You could literally get order of magnitude differences from this community.
Part of the problem is that everyone is at a different point in their software development maturity. Inexperienced software developers will often give more optimistic estimates based on coding only. The more mature develeopers will build additional activities in their estimates: planning, analysis, design, review, test, documentation...
Trust me, your instructor is not looking at the accuracy of your estimates. He wants to see your thinking process. As Keith suggests, your assumptions will go a long way to explain your thoroughness.
One reply is enough for me. It's not real project. I only study. This project is imagine. Doesn't even matter who answers me - a developere with big experience or middle
...
1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Mar 10, 2023 11:30 AM
Stéphane Parent
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You said it yourself: it's not a real project. Go ahead and pick your estimates, documenting why you chose those numbers.
I've already given you a list of activities you should consider for inclusion in your estimates.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Mar 10, 2023 7:05 AM
Replying to Vitaliy Zhdanov
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One reply is enough for me. It's not real project. I only study. This project is imagine. Doesn't even matter who answers me - a developere with big experience or middle
You said it yourself: it's not a real project. Go ahead and pick your estimates, documenting why you chose those numbers.
I've already given you a list of activities you should consider for inclusion in your estimates. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
I respectfully disagree with some comments about you are not able to estimated. If you give me this detail what I will ask you is regarding the features or functions the product you are trying to create will provide. Mainly taking into account who will be the final user. With the product definition then you can estimate the project. Your first estimation result will be according to Barry Bohem´s Cone of Uncertainty or what you can find today in some places like T-Shirt estimate. At the end, It is the same as when you are going to cook something. You first decide what to cook, then you decide how to cook it (the steps and the ingredients), when to cook it (each step time) and how it will cost.
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1 reply by Keith Novak
Mar 11, 2023 6:10 PM
Keith Novak
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I think we can all agree that an estimate can be made if provided with more details. The problem itself however, does not include any of those items you listed. This is not uncommon in college classes.
Students cannot be expected to understand 3D modeling, landscape architecture, data conversion, botany, etc. or learn it overnight in a PM class. The learning objective is to identify the reasons why "it depends". Two students can have wildly different answers with sound thought processes and still both get high marks.
What I did in my post-grad level classes was create an imaginary company, and fill in the missing details based on how my company operates. I personally would assume this effort is to design the landscaping for our new building. That gives me details like scale, quality, etc. and I have justification for my assumptions.
Thinking about the assignments from my imaginary CEO chair was also an entertaining way to deal with lots of homework :-)
I respectfully disagree with some comments about you are not able to estimated. If you give me this detail what I will ask you is regarding the features or functions the product you are trying to create will provide. Mainly taking into account who will be the final user. With the product definition then you can estimate the project. Your first estimation result will be according to Barry Bohem´s Cone of Uncertainty or what you can find today in some places like T-Shirt estimate. At the end, It is the same as when you are going to cook something. You first decide what to cook, then you decide how to cook it (the steps and the ingredients), when to cook it (each step time) and how it will cost.
I think we can all agree that an estimate can be made if provided with more details. The problem itself however, does not include any of those items you listed. This is not uncommon in college classes.
Students cannot be expected to understand 3D modeling, landscape architecture, data conversion, botany, etc. or learn it overnight in a PM class. The learning objective is to identify the reasons why "it depends". Two students can have wildly different answers with sound thought processes and still both get high marks.
What I did in my post-grad level classes was create an imaginary company, and fill in the missing details based on how my company operates. I personally would assume this effort is to design the landscaping for our new building. That gives me details like scale, quality, etc. and I have justification for my assumptions.
Thinking about the assignments from my imaginary CEO chair was also an entertaining way to deal with lots of homework :-) Saving Changes...
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