Dear Keith A leader is only such if he has followers I had never heard of someone declaring himself as a leader. Everything has a first time in life We can certainly influence many people in organizations, especially those who, after listening and/or reading our proposals, find them interesting. And decide to sponsor the projects that we propose to manage and lead
There are other possible scenarios: 1. Gain a reputation as a good project manager (a person who (thanks to their skills) delivers products and/or services in accordance with project requirements 2. Have the opportunity to demonstrate that you have the skills to manage projects, that is, to deliver products and/or services in accordance with project requirements
Talking about it, if you don't manage your projects.... Personally, I don't care if you feel comfortable being designated as an steward.
Luis, I feel that you are trying to be insulting without coming out and doing so, but I will address your points or lack thereof directly.
First, if you wish to engage in a debate on whether PM is more of a management role or one of stewardship then please define your terms. Otherwise you may as well be debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Secondly, of course people do not declare themselves a leader. The power of leadership comes from the people who choose to follow the leader of their own free will. You can't choose to be a leader, but you can choose to be the person that others want to follow. If people only follow your lead because they must, then you have greatly throttled the capabilities of the team.
Finally, if you don't think that a person who prioritizes leadership before authority cannot be a highly effective project manager, then personally I don't think the terms you choose to describe the nuances are worth debating.
Best regards,br type="_moz"
KNbr type="_moz"
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1 reply by Luis Branco
Jan 15, 2024 3:38 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Keith If there are people I have great regard and esteem for on this forum, one of them is Keith It has never been nor will it ever be my intention to offend anyone, quite the opposite. I accept and respect opinions that differ from mine and, interestingly enough, I learn a lot from listening to or reading them. On the other hand, I like a good debate of ideas and if I gave the idea that I was trying to offend you, that was never my intention. In debates and/or in a conflict situation, I always focus on topics protecting and respecting people. You wrote: "First, if you wish to engage in a debate on whether PM is more of a management role or one of stewardship then please define your terms. Otherwise you may as well be debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.” A lot of ink has been spilled over what is "managing" and what is "leading" over the years. PMI in its "Process Groups: A Practice Guide" addresses this topic. I thought we were talking based on what PMI has been sharing, over the years, in this area.
The interpretation you gave to what I wrote is very interesting. Leadership and Management are two skills that project managers must possess and they are two distinct concepts. Leadership style is another topic about which there has also been a lot of ink.
Saving Changes...
George FreemanThought Leader | Author | Architect| Florida, United States
Luis,
In my opinion, Keith’s origin statement holds the truth for stewardship and project management. Let me further his analogy and then make my thesis statement.
When a project professional is empowered to administer a project, they receive a provisional grant of “corporate territory,” and the title “high steward” (i.e., project manager) decreed through a royal charter and promulgated through the lords of our land—executive management. Through this position of trust, we have vested authority to marshal resources from this domain to achieve a stated objective.
In other words, stewardship is a natural quality of project management, as we are responsible and held accountable for managing and caring for territory and objectives that are NOT our own (i.e., we are stewards).
Now, my thesis: The exercise of delineating and dissecting management qualities to choose one over the other contradicts the principle of project awareness and adaptability that we preach. In other words, we teach that an “in-tune” project professional should deploy the management qualities appropriate for their culture, organization, and specific project.
If that’s true, then it’s an academic exercise to make these arguments, especially regarding what is appropriate for one’s given level within an organization.
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Jan 15, 2024 4:09 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear George Thank you for participating in this exchange of opinions Is the "royal charter" you refer to the same as a project charter? It defines who the project manager is, his responsibilities and his authority. You wrote: "In other words, stewardship is a natural quality of project management, as we are responsible and held accountable for managing and caring for territory and objectives that are NOT our own (i.e., we are stewards)." If so, it makes no sense to use two different words to designate the same thing: Project Management.
Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Jan 13, 2024 2:10 PM
Replying to Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas Thank you for participating in this exchange of opinions Where did you get the idea that management is not an ethical activity striving to preserve resources? Was it in any empirical study?
Luis,
I did not look for studies (yet) and relied on my own experience from observing managers over 50 years, myself taking this role.
The definitions of the role of manager do mostly not include a reference to ethics. Similar applies BTW to the whole area of business theory, which is based on the flawed assumption that humans are rational.
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Jan 15, 2024 4:26 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas At PMI there is a code of ethics and conduct. We all subscribe to this code of ethics and conduct to be members and/or to obtain any proposed certification In other words, it is implicit that all PMI members and project management professionals carry out their profession in line with the Principles of the Code of Ethics and Conduct. Or am I mistaken? If so....stewardship makes very little sense
Speaking of this subject of ethics. The reason that led me to join PMI was the existence of a Code of Ethics and Conduct and the assumption that all members behave in line with the Principles of the Code of Ethics
Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Jan 14, 2024 3:55 PM
Replying to Keith Novak
...
Luis, I feel that you are trying to be insulting without coming out and doing so, but I will address your points or lack thereof directly.
First, if you wish to engage in a debate on whether PM is more of a management role or one of stewardship then please define your terms. Otherwise you may as well be debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Secondly, of course people do not declare themselves a leader. The power of leadership comes from the people who choose to follow the leader of their own free will. You can't choose to be a leader, but you can choose to be the person that others want to follow. If people only follow your lead because they must, then you have greatly throttled the capabilities of the team.
Finally, if you don't think that a person who prioritizes leadership before authority cannot be a highly effective project manager, then personally I don't think the terms you choose to describe the nuances are worth debating.
Best regards,br type="_moz"
KNbr type="_moz"
Dear Keith If there are people I have great regard and esteem for on this forum, one of them is Keith It has never been nor will it ever be my intention to offend anyone, quite the opposite. I accept and respect opinions that differ from mine and, interestingly enough, I learn a lot from listening to or reading them. On the other hand, I like a good debate of ideas and if I gave the idea that I was trying to offend you, that was never my intention. In debates and/or in a conflict situation, I always focus on topics protecting and respecting people. You wrote: "First, if you wish to engage in a debate on whether PM is more of a management role or one of stewardship then please define your terms. Otherwise you may as well be debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.” A lot of ink has been spilled over what is "managing" and what is "leading" over the years. PMI in its "Process Groups: A Practice Guide" addresses this topic. I thought we were talking based on what PMI has been sharing, over the years, in this area.
The interpretation you gave to what I wrote is very interesting. Leadership and Management are two skills that project managers must possess and they are two distinct concepts. Leadership style is another topic about which there has also been a lot of ink. Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Jan 14, 2024 10:06 PM
Replying to George Freeman
...
Luis,
In my opinion, Keith’s origin statement holds the truth for stewardship and project management. Let me further his analogy and then make my thesis statement.
When a project professional is empowered to administer a project, they receive a provisional grant of “corporate territory,” and the title “high steward” (i.e., project manager) decreed through a royal charter and promulgated through the lords of our land—executive management. Through this position of trust, we have vested authority to marshal resources from this domain to achieve a stated objective.
In other words, stewardship is a natural quality of project management, as we are responsible and held accountable for managing and caring for territory and objectives that are NOT our own (i.e., we are stewards).
Now, my thesis: The exercise of delineating and dissecting management qualities to choose one over the other contradicts the principle of project awareness and adaptability that we preach. In other words, we teach that an “in-tune” project professional should deploy the management qualities appropriate for their culture, organization, and specific project.
If that’s true, then it’s an academic exercise to make these arguments, especially regarding what is appropriate for one’s given level within an organization.
Dear George Thank you for participating in this exchange of opinions Is the "royal charter" you refer to the same as a project charter? It defines who the project manager is, his responsibilities and his authority. You wrote: "In other words, stewardship is a natural quality of project management, as we are responsible and held accountable for managing and caring for territory and objectives that are NOT our own (i.e., we are stewards)." If so, it makes no sense to use two different words to designate the same thing: Project Management. Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Jan 15, 2024 1:36 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Luis,
I did not look for studies (yet) and relied on my own experience from observing managers over 50 years, myself taking this role.
The definitions of the role of manager do mostly not include a reference to ethics. Similar applies BTW to the whole area of business theory, which is based on the flawed assumption that humans are rational.
Dear Thomas At PMI there is a code of ethics and conduct. We all subscribe to this code of ethics and conduct to be members and/or to obtain any proposed certification In other words, it is implicit that all PMI members and project management professionals carry out their profession in line with the Principles of the Code of Ethics and Conduct. Or am I mistaken? If so....stewardship makes very little sense
Speaking of this subject of ethics. The reason that led me to join PMI was the existence of a Code of Ethics and Conduct and the assumption that all members behave in line with the Principles of the Code of Ethics
...
1 reply by Thomas Walenta
Jan 15, 2024 6:45 AM
Thomas Walenta
...
Well, Luis.
Aspiration is what you say and what we want to see. The reality is what we observe. Frustration might be the emotion when aspiration and reality do not match.
Despite a commitment to sustainability, Hertz recently sold 1/3 of their EV fleet. Money rules.
And you did not ask about management or stewardship within PMI. Only there the code of ethics applies.
Saving Changes...
Thomas WalentaGlobal Project Economy ExpertHackenheim, Germany
Jan 15, 2024 4:26 AM
Replying to Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas At PMI there is a code of ethics and conduct. We all subscribe to this code of ethics and conduct to be members and/or to obtain any proposed certification In other words, it is implicit that all PMI members and project management professionals carry out their profession in line with the Principles of the Code of Ethics and Conduct. Or am I mistaken? If so....stewardship makes very little sense
Speaking of this subject of ethics. The reason that led me to join PMI was the existence of a Code of Ethics and Conduct and the assumption that all members behave in line with the Principles of the Code of Ethics
Well, Luis.
Aspiration is what you say and what we want to see. The reality is what we observe. Frustration might be the emotion when aspiration and reality do not match.
Despite a commitment to sustainability, Hertz recently sold 1/3 of their EV fleet. Money rules.
And you did not ask about management or stewardship within PMI. Only there the code of ethics applies.
...
1 reply by Luis Branco
Jan 15, 2024 10:40 AM
Luis Branco
...
Dear Thomas We agree. Just listen carefully to the news to get in touch with ethical managers...or those with a lack of ethics around the world... and the scandals involving central and regional governments :-) Supposedly there are Principles that regulate humanity Is it a sign of the times? Or is this where humanity is headed?
Good Q&As.
Lots of things to learn.
Thank you for sharing! Saving Changes...
Luis BrancoCEO| Business Insight, Consultores de Gestão, LdªCarcavelos, Lisboa, Portugal
Jan 15, 2024 6:45 AM
Replying to Thomas Walenta
...
Well, Luis.
Aspiration is what you say and what we want to see. The reality is what we observe. Frustration might be the emotion when aspiration and reality do not match.
Despite a commitment to sustainability, Hertz recently sold 1/3 of their EV fleet. Money rules.
And you did not ask about management or stewardship within PMI. Only there the code of ethics applies.
Dear Thomas We agree. Just listen carefully to the news to get in touch with ethical managers...or those with a lack of ethics around the world... and the scandals involving central and regional governments :-) Supposedly there are Principles that regulate humanity Is it a sign of the times? Or is this where humanity is headed? Saving Changes...
