Steven ZacharyDirector| Alberta Health ServicesCalgary, Alberta, Canada
I hear this question frequently. In fact I just watched a presentation on it last week.
The thinking goes something like this. The roles are close enough that "exceptional" people can do both roles inside the same project.
Another line of thinking goes the roles should be merged.
It makes zero sense in my humble opinion. There's simply too much work for either role to be done well as a combo. It's not that someone can't succeed in a combination role. I think they can, we've all been there once in our careers.
It's just that I don't think one could EXCEL in that type of combination role without offsetting roles or some delegation structure. What are your thoughts and ramblings about the PM and BA relationship? Saving Changes...
Christina HouseGlobal Ethics & Compliance| Aerospace Wichita, Ks, United States
Great discussion! My take is that the answer "depends." Much of this discussion is asking, "If one person can do it all." Well, that really depends on the product, service or result you are seeking but ultimately on the project lifecycle and the complexity of the project.
I have performed both the BA and PM role on all continuous improvement projects that are software based. I tend to use an Agile'ish process for these projects and my lifecycles have been anywhere from 2 years to 6 weeks depending on the needs of the customer.
When I have been able to be strictly be the BA it is when I'm hiring out the PM work on SOW to a software vendor. I collaborate with the PM assigned but ultimately have some internal PM reporting but focus mainly on the internal BA work and let the PM we're paying do their part as the PM and I ask targeted questions on schedule, budget and quality. My job is to then not let the scope explode based on poor requirements management.
My question to all of you who are getting the PMP and the BA certifications - if you don't believe you can do both then what is the motivation of seeking both professional certifications? I am curious if anyone is wondering if having both certifications would confuse current or future employers.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Feb 25, 2016 10:23 AM
Stéphane Parent
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I can certainly do both, Christina. My choice is to not do them at the same time. "You cannot serve two masters..."
At this point a BA certification is not on my roadmap. If it was, I would NOT go for PMI-PBA. I would go for CBAP. (I would not want to get a PM certification from IIBA, why would I want a BA certification from PMI?)
Even employers that advertise for a project manager/business analyst position usually agree they want you to be able to fill either role, not both, on a project.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Feb 25, 2016 10:12 AM
Replying to Christina House
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Great discussion! My take is that the answer "depends." Much of this discussion is asking, "If one person can do it all." Well, that really depends on the product, service or result you are seeking but ultimately on the project lifecycle and the complexity of the project.
I have performed both the BA and PM role on all continuous improvement projects that are software based. I tend to use an Agile'ish process for these projects and my lifecycles have been anywhere from 2 years to 6 weeks depending on the needs of the customer.
When I have been able to be strictly be the BA it is when I'm hiring out the PM work on SOW to a software vendor. I collaborate with the PM assigned but ultimately have some internal PM reporting but focus mainly on the internal BA work and let the PM we're paying do their part as the PM and I ask targeted questions on schedule, budget and quality. My job is to then not let the scope explode based on poor requirements management.
My question to all of you who are getting the PMP and the BA certifications - if you don't believe you can do both then what is the motivation of seeking both professional certifications? I am curious if anyone is wondering if having both certifications would confuse current or future employers.
I can certainly do both, Christina. My choice is to not do them at the same time. "You cannot serve two masters..."
At this point a BA certification is not on my roadmap. If it was, I would NOT go for PMI-PBA. I would go for CBAP. (I would not want to get a PM certification from IIBA, why would I want a BA certification from PMI?)
Even employers that advertise for a project manager/business analyst position usually agree they want you to be able to fill either role, not both, on a project. Saving Changes...
Christina HouseGlobal Ethics & Compliance| Aerospace Wichita, Ks, United States
I agree with you Stéphane, I would go to IIBA for my BA certification. In my opinion having the awareness of both disciplines certainly makes for a stronger, well-rounded, employee regardless of the role they serve on each project. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Absolutely, Christina. Knowing what a BA does helps you know whose responsibility it is to provide information or services.
As an example, when I see one of my developers trying to word an error message, I tell her to go get the exact wording from the BA (who should be writing it down as a requirement). Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
This is a very good discussion Stephane amd Christina and I agree with both of you especially the last statements you've mentioned. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Other point of view. I have both certifications: IIBA´s CBAP and PMIs PMI-PBA. Each time I decide to habe a certification it is based on my personal estimation about future market demmands. So, I can be wrong because it is an estimation. I have been working with the IIBA from the very begining, from the genesis, of BA profession. And recently I have the honor to work with the PMI to create and review the BA standards. But unfortunatelly, while my heart is still with the IIBA, I think the PMI has a better strategy about the role. For example the PMI has engaged to people that hast created the IIBA.
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1 reply by Christina House
Feb 25, 2016 4:03 PM
Christina House
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Thank you for your unique perspective Sergio! I will give thought to what you say. I make the choice based on market demands as well. What I do know is in this 3rd wave of data management/information age, according to Malcom Gladwell, there is a need for certified BAs of either governing body.
Saving Changes...
Christina HouseGlobal Ethics & Compliance| Aerospace Wichita, Ks, United States
Feb 25, 2016 1:22 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Other point of view. I have both certifications: IIBA´s CBAP and PMIs PMI-PBA. Each time I decide to habe a certification it is based on my personal estimation about future market demmands. So, I can be wrong because it is an estimation. I have been working with the IIBA from the very begining, from the genesis, of BA profession. And recently I have the honor to work with the PMI to create and review the BA standards. But unfortunatelly, while my heart is still with the IIBA, I think the PMI has a better strategy about the role. For example the PMI has engaged to people that hast created the IIBA.
Thank you for your unique perspective Sergio! I will give thought to what you say. I make the choice based on market demands as well. What I do know is in this 3rd wave of data management/information age, according to Malcom Gladwell, there is a need for certified BAs of either governing body. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Your welcome Christina. About your comment, I will say what I think. The 3rd wave is because time to time some companies tried to invent some buzzword in order to sell something. For ancient people like me I have been working with all of that from 1990 and before and I have make lot of research when I worked in IBM or HP with the genesis of these environments. If you let me some comment, the worst thing we can do is to loss the basement. A business analyst is somebody who will understand the organizational strategy, will understand the problem situation that happends when needs of change to put strategy into action emerges, and will guide the whole organization to create the right solution. No more than that. Saving Changes...
Laura PatonFounder and CEO| BA AcademyWindermere, Fl, United States
Stéphane and Christina I hold all three certifications PMP, PMI-PBA, and CBAP and my perspective is that the roles need to align. When I speak of alignment I mean, there is value in having consistent terminology and a clear understanding of how project management and business analysis work together for the success of a program or project. This is the huge value I see with PMP and PMI-PBA. I would be careful making the assumption that just because it’s PMI, they aren’t getting the business analysis piece right.
There are a number of very successful businesses who provide great value to customers by packaging products that complement each other. To really assess the right product for your organization or for the individual BA, I suggest doing a little vendor assessment; after all you are investing time and money into the certification product. So look at the financial viability of each association. Which certification has the better growth rate? You can determine this by comparing number of PMI-PBAs for year one versus what IIBA achieved in its first year. Which professional organization has more reach, more channels, more chapters, etc. Figure out what measurable criteria is most important for your organization, and then perform your analysis. What is important to measure in one organization will be different across organizations, but the important point is to make your decision based on measurable criteria. Saving Changes...
Christina HouseGlobal Ethics & Compliance| Aerospace Wichita, Ks, United States
Laura, those are exactly the discussions we have in our PMI Chapter locally when we discuss PMI vs. IIBA. Many of us in aerospace and IT and do perform cross-functional responsibilities of PM/BA. As I'm prepping a 2 day seminar for Requirements Management I am bringing in elements from both PMI's and IIBA's. It's been fun research but hasn't brought me any closer to determining which certification I might pursue. I must not be ready to make the commitment. Saving Changes...
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