Sylvain CarrierRetired| Canadian Forces and Government of CanadaOttawa, Ontario, Canada
I had to do some research to compare the name/structure of project phases in various methodologies and came across an interesting paper by Mounir Ajam.
The paper basically says that PMI/PMBoK has process groups but no project phase/stage structure as such.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 21, 2016 4:40 AM
Replying to fosco frongia
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do you speak french?
I studied in a French school (Colleges Des Freres) but that was long time ago so I forgot a lot but I can still speak (Intermediate) and I mostly understand everything I hear or read but writing not that good anymore although I am practicing.
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1 reply by fosco frongia
Jan 21, 2016 5:23 AM
fosco frongia
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I studied French at school and I had you same problem. I learnt the best way to practice the language is to use it in our job. Fortunately I had some project located in France :)
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fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
Jan 21, 2016 4:47 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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I studied in a French school (Colleges Des Freres) but that was long time ago so I forgot a lot but I can still speak (Intermediate) and I mostly understand everything I hear or read but writing not that good anymore although I am practicing.
I studied French at school and I had you same problem. I learnt the best way to practice the language is to use it in our job. Fortunately I had some project located in France :)
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 21, 2016 1:29 PM
Rami Kaibni
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That's great and working is France is definitely an asset to improve your language :-)
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Markus KopkoAI Enabler for Project & Program Mgmt | Founder PMotion.ai / The PM
AI Coach| PMotion.aiHamburg, Hamburg, Germany
well, i never studied french in school nor anyway esle .... unfortenatly ... the language of love ... ;) ... sorry for becoming OT ...
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 21, 2016 1:29 PM
Rami Kaibni
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We are here to help you anytime Markus :D
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fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
;) Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Jan 20, 2016 4:47 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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You have to read the PMBOK and all your answers are there. PMBOK is a guide to apply project management best practices. The method and the phases (project life cycles) to use is up to you.
Sergio
Forgive me for challenging you -
1 - where does it say in the PMBOK that it is the best practices?
2 - Most who read and study the PMBOK still misunderstand it ---- allow me to post a challenge to prove this point - how many charters (or equivalent document) are there on the PROJECT life cycle?
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jan 21, 2016 7:12 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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No problem. I am here to learn from others so a challenge is welcome. 1-Is the definition of what a BOK is. Each BOK you read (BABOK, PMBOK, SEBOK, EABOK, etc) is a subset of knowledge generally recognized as best practices. See point 1.1 inside the PMBOK but you will find the same definition into each BOK you take. 2-when you say "do not understand it", in what context? PMBOK is easy to understand. The problem is people do not understand that you have to separate the approach (agile, lean, etc) from the life cycle (waterfall, V, Spiral, etc) and from the guide or principles you will use (PMBOK, IPMA, GPM, etc). There is a hugh missunderstanding. Unfortunatelly. And let me say: more and more a project manager will add value to organizations when really understand the above separation of concerns each time is assigned to a new initiative.
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Anonymous
Jan 20, 2016 4:48 PM
Replying to Suhail Iqbal
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I would agree with Mounir Ajam on this and would like to point you in another direction. PRINCE2 defines the lifecycles and phases in a even better way, but naturally not in conflict with PMBOK Guide. They have three lifecycles running in parallel in a project, project management, technical and administrative. Project management and Technical phases can still have some overlaps but administrative phases are surgically separated even breaking and dividing the project management ad technical phases. You still have the freedom to have as many phases in your project and name them accordingly. I would say number of phases in any project should and could not be in double figures or it will make the project impossibly complex. I will go for 3-7 phases in a project with their names closely resembling the technical work done in each. PMBOK Guide also explains the same concept but not in so many words, but if you want to understand the whole story, you have to refer to material outside of PMBOK Guide.
Agree Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Jan 20, 2016 7:14 PM
Replying to fosco frongia
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Hi Sylvain,
let me make a clarification: PMI and PMBOK don't define a methodology by a body of knowledge that are needed for a excellent Pm practice.
The fundamental concept is the tailoring: you are not supposed to apply all element indicated in the PMBOK but only these ones which are needed for your project. In other words for little projects the project management could be simplified respect a bigger one; they can have phases or not, this is not the matter.
The most important issue is that you should work in the five process areas DURING the project life cycle. Process areas are "iterative elements" which you should consider and use during the project for adjusting it to the new elements known regardless the project is divided in phases or not
I am not sure if I agree or disagree since the statement is not clear.
Are you saying the processes from the five groups (or some of them) are applied ONCE on the project along the project life cycle? This is what I understood from your post. What i understand is that we apply some processes early some in the middle and some later in the project life cycle ---- but the key point is that PROCESSES applied ONCE? Correct?
If this is what you are saying, IMPO I do not agree.
If you are saying the processes (some of them and from all groups) repeat in every phase - then we are in agreement.
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1 reply by fosco frongia
Jan 21, 2016 7:44 AM
fosco frongia
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thanks for pointing it Mourir,
i think it is due to my English, the second option you show is the correct one, but I was trying to explain other issue: the application of the process in the project or phase is not done only once in a period (e.g. planning at the beginning of the phase or project) but these process are on work during all the cycle of life of the project/phase.
hope my position is more clear now
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
No problem. I am here to learn from others so a challenge is welcome. 1-Is the definition of what a BOK is. Each BOK you read (BABOK, PMBOK, SEBOK, EABOK, etc) is a subset of knowledge generally recognized as best practices. See point 1.1 inside the PMBOK but you will find the same definition into each BOK you take. 2-when you say "do not understand it", in what context? PMBOK is easy to understand. The problem is people do not understand that you have to separate the approach (agile, lean, etc) from the life cycle (waterfall, V, Spiral, etc) and from the guide or principles you will use (PMBOK, IPMA, GPM, etc). There is a hugh missunderstanding. Unfortunatelly. And let me say: more and more a project manager will add value to organizations when really understand the above separation of concerns each time is assigned to a new initiative. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Jan 21, 2016 7:12 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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No problem. I am here to learn from others so a challenge is welcome. 1-Is the definition of what a BOK is. Each BOK you read (BABOK, PMBOK, SEBOK, EABOK, etc) is a subset of knowledge generally recognized as best practices. See point 1.1 inside the PMBOK but you will find the same definition into each BOK you take. 2-when you say "do not understand it", in what context? PMBOK is easy to understand. The problem is people do not understand that you have to separate the approach (agile, lean, etc) from the life cycle (waterfall, V, Spiral, etc) and from the guide or principles you will use (PMBOK, IPMA, GPM, etc). There is a hugh missunderstanding. Unfortunatelly. And let me say: more and more a project manager will add value to organizations when really understand the above separation of concerns each time is assigned to a new initiative.
Sergio
On 1
here is the direct quote from PMBOK 1.1
"The PMBOK® Guide identifies that subset of the project management body of knowledge that is generally recognized as good practice" ...
Another quote from the same section
"“Good practice” does not mean that the knowledge described should always be applied uniformly to all projects; the organization and/or project management team is responsible for determining what is appropriate for any given project"
Basically, it is about GOOD practice - not Best Practices
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jan 21, 2016 8:29 AM
Stéphane Parent
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Mounir,
I think we are talking semantics. There is a political correctness movement that has been going on for the last few years to replace "best practices" with "good practices".
It is deemed inappropriate to write or say "best practice". It seems people understand "best" to mean "unable to improve upon".
Personally, I always understood "best" within the context of a point in time. In other words, you use the "best" at that time, until it is replaced with something better, thus becoming the new "best".
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fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
thanks for pointing it Mourir,
i think it is due to my English, the second option you show is the correct one, but I was trying to explain other issue: the application of the process in the project or phase is not done only once in a period (e.g. planning at the beginning of the phase or project) but these process are on work during all the cycle of life of the project/phase.
hope my position is more clear now Saving Changes...