Sylvain CarrierRetired| Canadian Forces and Government of CanadaOttawa, Ontario, Canada
I had to do some research to compare the name/structure of project phases in various methodologies and came across an interesting paper by Mounir Ajam.
The paper basically says that PMI/PMBoK has process groups but no project phase/stage structure as such.
Obviously you are highly qualified - so to someone like you the PMBOK is easy. Same for me.
However, I assure you that a large percent of the people online and that I met in person - who are PMP and who even conduct PMP training - do not understand critical aspects of the guide.
For example - the most common issue (which I covered in the article that led to this thread and posted by Sylvain) is that many practitioners (and companies) think the process groups are project phases.
They do not know what the PMT is - they know PT (Project Team) but PMT to them is the PM.
I can list many more points but that would be changing the thread purpose. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
It has no sence to discuss if good or best. And in the context of PMBOK is the same. You can find inside the PMBOK both are using interchangeable. By the way, if you want to discuss this type of things, let me say that good, bad, best are subjective matters that must not taking into account for any project/program/portfolio manager that perform the role as a professional UNLESS they assign objective meaning to that words. Saving Changes...
Sylvain CarrierRetired| Canadian Forces and Government of CanadaOttawa, Ontario, Canada
Thanks Mounir and all the others.
It seems that we have a general agreement that:
- PMBoK does not have standard phase/stage names and
- PMBoK does not need standard phase/stage names to allow flexibility.
I am not so sure that we all agree that one could use of the process groups as phase/stage names though. It seems to be a good fit (except monitor & control of course) but it is true that it could create confusion.
PRINCE2 seems to "acknowledge" standard phase/stage names as I have mentioned somewhere in this thread but that question could (should?) be a different topic. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
You can use what you want as a name. The problem here is people try to understand something based on their perception on reality instead of make abstractions. Before studying system I studied physics. If you try to understand quantum physics you are lost. When you cook and take a recipe I think you do not try to understand it. You apply it in the way you are confortable or you think work for you and that´s all. As I mentioned, everything is inside the PMBOK. The problem is people talk a lot about a lot of things having data but not information. You can see a lot of people that said "PMI methodology" including some people who has the PMP Certification!!!!!!. The Init-Plan-Exe-Control-Close is taking from the Plan-Do-Check-Act model and can be taking as a governance framework. Saving Changes...
fosco frongiaSenior project manager| ENTE PATRIMONIALE CHIESA GESU' CRISTO SUGFino Mornasco, Como, Italy
completely agree with you position sergio Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
About PRINCE2, I encourge to go directly to the PRINCE2 site. All answers are there. I have used it with ITIL and DSDM all together.
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1 reply by Sylvain Carrier
Jan 21, 2016 8:19 AM
Sylvain Carrier
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For the benefit of this discussion, do you agree that PRINCE2 does have standard phase/stage names? (pre-project, initiation, delivery(ies), closing)
Saving Changes...
Sylvain CarrierRetired| Canadian Forces and Government of CanadaOttawa, Ontario, Canada
Jan 21, 2016 8:14 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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About PRINCE2, I encourge to go directly to the PRINCE2 site. All answers are there. I have used it with ITIL and DSDM all together.
For the benefit of this discussion, do you agree that PRINCE2 does have standard phase/stage names? (pre-project, initiation, delivery(ies), closing)
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Jan 21, 2016 8:36 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Silvian: is not a matter to agree or not. It is a matter about it is or it is not. We need to discuss with information not with data. So, we need to go to PRINCE2 oficial site because everything is there.
Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
Mounir,
I think we are talking semantics. There is a political correctness movement that has been going on for the last few years to replace "best practices" with "good practices".
It is deemed inappropriate to write or say "best practice". It seems people understand "best" to mean "unable to improve upon".
Personally, I always understood "best" within the context of a point in time. In other words, you use the "best" at that time, until it is replaced with something better, thus becoming the new "best". Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Jan 21, 2016 7:53 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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It has no sence to discuss if good or best. And in the context of PMBOK is the same. You can find inside the PMBOK both are using interchangeable. By the way, if you want to discuss this type of things, let me say that good, bad, best are subjective matters that must not taking into account for any project/program/portfolio manager that perform the role as a professional UNLESS they assign objective meaning to that words.
Segio
I did not open the discussion - you did. You labeled the PMBOK as best practices, which is not true. I researched this topic extensively when i worked on my e-books on the PMBOK.
Is this a relevant discussion? Absolutely - since there is huge difference between good and best. Is it subjective? Yes of course - what might be good for you might not be for me --- but in the same context - GOOD does not equal BEST.
The reason - I point this out because it has a direct implication on the practice of project management and project performance. There are too many practitioners that think the PMBOK is the best and it is enough to manage projects but you and i know that is not true. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Jan 21, 2016 8:10 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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You can use what you want as a name. The problem here is people try to understand something based on their perception on reality instead of make abstractions. Before studying system I studied physics. If you try to understand quantum physics you are lost. When you cook and take a recipe I think you do not try to understand it. You apply it in the way you are confortable or you think work for you and that´s all. As I mentioned, everything is inside the PMBOK. The problem is people talk a lot about a lot of things having data but not information. You can see a lot of people that said "PMI methodology" including some people who has the PMP Certification!!!!!!. The Init-Plan-Exe-Control-Close is taking from the Plan-Do-Check-Act model and can be taking as a governance framework.
