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Does PMBoK have a project phases structure (stage names)?

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Sylvain Carrier Retired| Canadian Forces and Government of Canada Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I had to do some research to compare the name/structure of project phases in various methodologies and came across an interesting paper by Mounir Ajam.

The paper basically says that PMI/PMBoK has process groups but no project phase/stage structure as such.

I think it is true. Do you agree?

http://www.maxwideman.com/guests/redefining_pm/versus.htm
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Fully disagree with you Mounir. Because it is subjective it has no sence to discusse about good or best. The best thing we can teach to people is that each time and endeavour is starting an enterprise analysis must be done to decide the best course of action to solve the problem that is the reason because the initiative is started. There is no implication on project management practice and project performance if people understand that. Once again, best is subjective so must be done objective by performing the role as professionals not talking about semantic.
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Jan 21, 2016 8:19 AM
Replying to Sylvain Carrier
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For the benefit of this discussion, do you agree that PRINCE2 does have standard phase/stage names? (pre-project, initiation, delivery(ies), closing)
Silvian: is not a matter to agree or not. It is a matter about it is or it is not. We need to discuss with information not with data. So, we need to go to PRINCE2 oficial site because everything is there.
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1 reply by Sylvain Carrier
Jan 21, 2016 8:38 AM
Sylvain Carrier
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Right. I have been there and I think "it is". I was just trying to get your opinion on the matter.
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Sylvain Carrier Retired| Canadian Forces and Government of Canada Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Jan 21, 2016 8:36 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Silvian: is not a matter to agree or not. It is a matter about it is or it is not. We need to discuss with information not with data. So, we need to go to PRINCE2 oficial site because everything is there.
Right. I have been there and I think "it is". I was just trying to get your opinion on the matter.
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Anonymous
Jan 21, 2016 8:29 AM
Replying to Stéphane Parent
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Mounir,

I think we are talking semantics. There is a political correctness movement that has been going on for the last few years to replace "best practices" with "good practices".

It is deemed inappropriate to write or say "best practice". It seems people understand "best" to mean "unable to improve upon".

Personally, I always understood "best" within the context of a point in time. In other words, you use the "best" at that time, until it is replaced with something better, thus becoming the new "best".
Stephane

The PMBOK is clear - it is good practice - which to me I read as good - common - average. Best practice is better - will give you better results - not necessarily cannot improve on.

I come from the capital projects industry (engineering - construction) and we also use bench-marking and in there we clearly differentiate good is those who are average or better but best practices are those who are top performers (with proven results).

Also the Construction Industry Institute - clearly identify a set of Best Practices (about 10 to 20), which are above the normal - common - good practice. For example - scope management. The PMBOK give you a set of processes. CII offer a best practice that if you truly implement it you should see additional savings on your projects (better performance than your pears who do not use those practices. Same for change management and schedule, and others topics.

To summarize - in the industry I came from - there is a huge difference between good and best. In the English language - well; leave this open.
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1 reply by Stéphane Parent
Jan 21, 2016 8:44 AM
Stéphane Parent
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What will the Construction Industry Institute do when it wants to replace one of its "best practice" with something better?
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Is there any place where the PMI said that PMBOK is for qualified people? If yes, please let me know. PMBOK is for all. The problem is people do not understand what a BOK is. And with the aim to sell something lot of other people talk with data on hand, not with information so the only things this people do is to contribute to the general confusion and to jeopardize the work of other people that tried to perform portfolio/program/project manager roles. I have been working with the PMI from years and I have participate in most of the standards creation and this is a discussion we have maintained from years.
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Anonymous
Jan 21, 2016 8:34 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Fully disagree with you Mounir. Because it is subjective it has no sence to discusse about good or best. The best thing we can teach to people is that each time and endeavour is starting an enterprise analysis must be done to decide the best course of action to solve the problem that is the reason because the initiative is started. There is no implication on project management practice and project performance if people understand that. Once again, best is subjective so must be done objective by performing the role as professionals not talking about semantic.
Perfectly OK to disagree - again in the industry i came from - there is huge difference and clearly documented by organizations like CII that use the term Best Practice and IPA (another organization that benchmark performance) use the term VIP (Value Improving Practices) --- and in both cases these practices are performance differentiation.
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Stéphane Parent Self Employed / Semi-retired| Leader Maker Prince Edward Island, Canada
What will the Construction Industry Institute do when it wants to replace one of its "best practice" with something better?
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Anonymous
Jan 21, 2016 8:00 AM
Replying to Sylvain Carrier
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Thanks Mounir and all the others.

It seems that we have a general agreement that:

- PMBoK does not have standard phase/stage names and
- PMBoK does not need standard phase/stage names to allow flexibility.

I am not so sure that we all agree that one could use of the process groups as phase/stage names though. It seems to be a good fit (except monitor & control of course) but it is true that it could create confusion.

PRINCE2 seems to "acknowledge" standard phase/stage names as I have mentioned somewhere in this thread but that question could (should?) be a different topic.
Beside PRINCE2 you can look at our CAM2P Model http://sukadway.sukad.com where we present a project life cycle model that supplement the PMBOK. In our model we offer names for the phases and stages (we are updating now as we work on the 3rd generation) but organizations can customize to their needs
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1 reply by Sylvain Carrier
Jan 21, 2016 8:52 AM
Sylvain Carrier
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I have been there Mounir but I'd like us to stick to PMBoK and PRINCE2 "recommendations" for now. They are the most widely known/adopted I would think but I am sure there are a few others available in the world...
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Sylvain Carrier Retired| Canadian Forces and Government of Canada Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
I have been there Mounir but I'd like us to stick to PMBoK and PRINCE2 "recommendations" for now. They are the most widely known/adopted I would think but I am sure there are a few others available in the world...
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Anonymous
Sylvain

It is your call if you want us to close the discussion on good versus best or the PMBOK in general since it is not core to the topic. Just say so. Otherwise, we can continue to discuss :)
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1 reply by Sylvain Carrier
Jan 21, 2016 9:14 AM
Sylvain Carrier
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Very nice of you Mounir. I think it is an interesting point to discuss but maybe it would be better to start a new thread with that title. It would then attract new contributors who may not be interested in the subject of this thread...
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