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Unknown - Unknown Risks

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Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
We are more familiar with the Known-Unkown Risks but I'm sure everyone has encountered some unknown-unknown risks in their own projects / industry. Can you give an example of a U-U Risk you encountered and what action you had to take? how did it impact the project?
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John Herman . Us, Aa, United States
Feb 03, 2016 10:44 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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John, Thanks for your input. I am not aware of the normal weather conditions in that area but is it normal to have hurricanes and flooding there ? Is yes, then this might be something that would have been taken into consideration in Contingency reserves. Can you shed more light on this please ?
In the US, areas in flood plains should expect be flooded about every 10 years, flood hazard areas about every 100 yrs. In the case of flooding, the area was in a flood hazard area so we had a one in 200 chance of flooding on a half year project. That's about 2.5 standard deviations on a normal curve, so perhaps we should have considered it. Snowstorms and hurricanes are also somewhat statistically probable, and certainly seasonal, so we can perhaps lump them and consider them "storms" and assign a storm reserve based on some formula.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Feb 03, 2016 1:49 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Exactly, this is what I meant - Usually such events, no matter how small their probability is, we consider them in the contingency reserve or put them on the watch list along with their triggers as the impact if such issues if they happen could be detrimental.
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Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Feb 03, 2016 1:14 PM
Replying to John Herman
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In the US, areas in flood plains should expect be flooded about every 10 years, flood hazard areas about every 100 yrs. In the case of flooding, the area was in a flood hazard area so we had a one in 200 chance of flooding on a half year project. That's about 2.5 standard deviations on a normal curve, so perhaps we should have considered it. Snowstorms and hurricanes are also somewhat statistically probable, and certainly seasonal, so we can perhaps lump them and consider them "storms" and assign a storm reserve based on some formula.
Exactly, this is what I meant - Usually such events, no matter how small their probability is, we consider them in the contingency reserve or put them on the watch list along with their triggers as the impact if such issues if they happen could be detrimental.
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PANKAJ KUMAR JOSHI General Manager| Transrail Lighting Limited Nainital, Uttrakhand, India
Feb 03, 2016 8:54 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Another good example Pankaj, thanks. You could not avoid the delay in schedule at all ?
Yes the project survived with lack of budget and with delay in schedule.
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Rogerio Santos Director| .: RIZ | iko Software :. Rio De Janeiro, Rj, Brazil
Unknow-unknow risks often arise. The real challenger is to avoid cognitive ones arising. I mean, you have a problem when sponsor or stakeholders recognize you - as a PM - could be identified and became ready to react early. If an unknow-unknow Risk arises and everyone agrees it was impossible to identify under normal conditions, workaround tasks are well accepted.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Feb 03, 2016 6:09 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Thanks for your input Rogerio - Can you give me an example of one U-U Risk that occurred on one of your projects and what was the solution impact ?
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Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Feb 03, 2016 5:19 PM
Replying to Rogerio Santos
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Unknow-unknow risks often arise. The real challenger is to avoid cognitive ones arising. I mean, you have a problem when sponsor or stakeholders recognize you - as a PM - could be identified and became ready to react early. If an unknow-unknow Risk arises and everyone agrees it was impossible to identify under normal conditions, workaround tasks are well accepted.
Thanks for your input Rogerio - Can you give me an example of one U-U Risk that occurred on one of your projects and what was the solution impact ?
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Tata Rahul Business Analyst / Project Manager| Ace Manufacturing System Ltd Bengaluru, Karnataka, India
In my case, the U-U risk was transfer and promotion of state government officials. Since we have been awarded the project from central government, the state government was unaware of the project or the details of the project.
We had to put lot of effort to build rapport, gain buy-in and explaining them the procedures involved.
Impact on project:

Behind Schedule by 20%
Over Budget by 10%
:(
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Thomas Walenta Global Project Economy Expert Hackenheim, Germany
I regard unknown unknows as risk that I have overlooked in identifying.
Someone from outside the project (QA, PMO) can assess the overall risk by checking how many and which type of risks have been identified (and assessed), compare it in the best case with organizational history and set a management reserve (for unknown unknowns). For example, if projects overrun in that organization in average for 30%, you might set the risk uplift for any project without sufficient risk assessment to 30%. I have seen mature organizations do that.
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Rami Kaibni
Community Champion
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten Associates New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Hi Thomas, what you've mentioned sometimes works but it all depends on the nature and size of the project. Moreover, we can never identify all risks and to my understanding this is why we assign a management reserve for such risks.
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Stéphane Parent Self Employed / Semi-retired| Leader Maker Prince Edward Island, Canada
My biggest U-U risk was a province-wide power outage during development. You can plan and mitigate localized outages, it is more difficult to find alternatives in broad-based disasters.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Mar 24, 2016 10:10 AM
Rami Kaibni
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This is very true Stephane.
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Thomas Walenta Global Project Economy Expert Hackenheim, Germany
Hi Rami,
agree, you can never identify all risks. The U-U risks are then what is left over, I heard the them residual risks for them.
As risk identification depends on the experience and knowledge you have available about the project, you will have higher U-U risks with less of own capability. Risk checklists or risk breakdown structures can mitigate that risk.
Example: when I did my first project with subcontractors, I just did not understand the implications and pitfalls of contract negotiation, understanding, control etc.. Only the problems that arose as a surprise (that were U-U risks for me), gave me the opportunity to learn.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Mar 24, 2016 10:10 AM
Rami Kaibni
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I totally agree with you on this Thomas .. Thanks.
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