Marius CloeteCEO| ProjectManagement.co.zaCape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
Am I the only one starting to feel uneasy noticing the term 'methodology' in so many postings?
Since the PMBOK's foundation is the building of common project management language through the careful crafting of definitions, how about we decide as a community to agree on working definitions for
framework, model, method, methodology, standard, discipline, plan, process and a few other related terms? Saving Changes...
"At the end - I am not one of those who is stuck on terminologies - to me what is important is to understand then use what you prefer."
OK, so whether one says PMBOK or PMBOK Guide, Project Manager or Project Leader, Sponsor or Champion, it doesn't really matter what other people think you mean, as long as you know what you actually mean? ;-)
To be clear, though: I don't 'mind' either, as long as there is consistency and agreement to agree amongst the stakeholders, and at least sommmmmme alignment to something which is generally accepted too.
Here's why:
We worked with one organisation which used the term 'Project Manager' to denote what in regular Project Management would probably call a 'Regional Manager' in the organisation.
There was also another organisation which similarly would call a location where they did business a 'project'. So their head office, as well as their Kinshasa office, were 'projects'. However, in their case, a 'Project Manager' was not a Regional Manager; it had a different meaning.
The problem was, although they used this terminology consistently amongst themselves, it was impossible to proceed with any kind of training even vaguely aligned to international standards, because you'd have to have a glossary to translate their internal jargon. ("Remember, guys, operations means projects, projects means offices, project managers means... etc. Now, in reverse, if you read the texbooks,translate project manager to what we call a contract lead, and translate project to assignment," etc., etc. ad confuseam.)
The first organisation agreed to change their terminology. That meant their employees could then read books on Project Management, and it would be applicable to their (new) understanding of 'project', 'project manager', 'project management', and so on.
The second organisation insisted on continuing with the confusing internal standard which they were using internationally across all continents in their home-built 'Project Portal'. We walked away.
Tania
US use the term cabinet the UK use cupboard
Rubber in the US means something different than it is in UK
So when i say I am not stuck on terms - if someone wants to call an apple an orange who am I to force them to use apple. I will say the proper name is apple and it is up to you to decide.
So to me - there is big difference between PMBOK and PMBOK Guide --- Good Practice and Best Practice --- Method and Methodology --- Methodology and Framework --- etc. but people still insist on a certain way - so be it. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Tania
Part 2
What i mean is organizations need to define their terms. For my organization, I publish a document that is part of our QMS which include the terms we use - so we do not have misunderstanding.
For example - we do not use Middle East we use West Asia. In Project Management we differentiate between a phase and a stage --- we do not have a charter we have a project authorization document and things like this.
So what are:
1. it is important is for organizations to establish their internal standards - which include terminology.
2. When talking with someone from outside your organization - do not assume the term they used is the same that you use. If it is important - ask for clarification to align terminology.
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1 reply by Tania Melnyczuk
Feb 19, 2016 10:44 AM
Tania Melnyczuk
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As I understand it, the 'organisation' implied in the original question is the ProjectManagement.com Discussions space.
So I think what Marius is asking is, why aren't we, the users of this Discussions space, building a termbase here for these terms as they are used in their Project Management context in these discussions, so that we can all understand each other better? (I.e. those terms that don't already exist in either the PMBOK Guide, Glossary or Lexicon -- or which do exist there, but which are in conflict with each other or with their usage in the PMBOK Guide or the broader de facto PMBOK.)
...Considering that creating standards is one of the things that the PMI is supposed to be all about, presumably through the collaboration of its members.
For example, the PMBOK Guide describes both the EVM as well as the CPM as methodologies. (My guess is that the latter is actually a mistake which will be corrected in the next edition, because at times the Guide also calls it a method.) It also lists 'agile, waterfall and PRINCE2' as 'methodologies and tools'. (I wouldn't have called agile either a methodology or a tool, actually, although I suppose anything you use to make something work could probably be considered a tool.)
If this is a naive question from a new kid on the block, feel free to point to the Official Authorised Answer. :-D
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Tania
Part 3
What you describe is real and this is unfortunate but it is not easy to unify a language so can one unify PM terms?
Here is an example Project Coordinator - in PMBOK Guide this is a position with no responsibility or authority. In one organization I worked with the PC was a VP position
So you say Po Ta To and I say Po Tay To :-) US say execute a project others say implement a project --- some say post project review - others say post mortem
Tania MelnyczukDirector: Programme Design| ProjectManagement.co.zaCape Town, South Africa
As I understand it, the 'organisation' implied in the original question is the ProjectManagement.com Discussions space.
So I think what Marius is asking is, why aren't we, the users of this Discussions space, building a termbase here for these terms as they are used in their Project Management context in these discussions, so that we can all understand each other better? (I.e. those terms that don't already exist in either the PMBOK Guide, Glossary or Lexicon -- or which do exist there, but which are in conflict with each other or with their usage in the PMBOK Guide or the broader de facto PMBOK.)
...Considering that creating standards is one of the things that the PMI is supposed to be all about, presumably through the collaboration of its members.
For example, the PMBOK Guide describes both the EVM as well as the CPM as methodologies. (My guess is that the latter is actually a mistake which will be corrected in the next edition, because at times the Guide also calls it a method.) It also lists 'agile, waterfall and PRINCE2' as 'methodologies and tools'. (I wouldn't have called agile either a methodology or a tool, actually, although I suppose anything you use to make something work could probably be considered a tool.)
If this is a naive question from a new kid on the block, feel free to point to the Official Authorised Answer. :-D Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Tania
Let me start with a joke - authorised or authorized? Color or Colour?
Now to answer your point:
1. PMI is not the only authority on project management. For example many thinks that the PMP demonstrate competence. Just because someone can fill a form saying they did work is not a proof of competence. In other project management organizations - competence cannot be limited to a multiple choice exam and it is has to be DEMONSTRATED. There are other issues.
2. Assuming we all believe in PMI (as a religion - as some of joke sometime). PMBOK Guide and Glossary or Lexicon are there. However, how many of us do read them? I know that I have not reviewed the Glossary - scanned through it once. Further, PMI copy rights clearly differentiate between PMBOK and PMBOK Guide --- again, this site and numerous other sites or groups related to PMI use PMBOK only.
I would love to see one universal language but that is a nice dream and until that materializes we have to work with imperfection :-) Saving Changes...
Marius CloeteCEO| ProjectManagement.co.zaCape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
Let me explain one example that prompted my original question.
About methodology...
In the PMBOK Guide -- Fifth Edition:
p 524 (Glossary - Acronyms section): CPM is said to stand for 'Critical Path Methodology'.
p 536 (Glossary - Definitions section): Uses the term 'Critical Path Method'.
p 218 (Section 7.4.2.1): This is the only place in the body copy where CPM is said to stand for 'Critical Path Methodology'; all other occurrences refer to the 'Critical Path Method' in the context of tools and techniques.
The PMI Lexicon of Project Management Terms (V3.0) defines the 'Critical Path Method'.
A Google search does not render any results for 'Critical Path Methodology'. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Marius my friend
Remember - the whole issue is that the term method and methodology are used interchangeably. I use to do that myself; until one day someone corrected me.
CPM - since this is a specific step by step approach then it should be Critical Path Method. This is purist and academic answer; to the best of my knowledge.
However, keep in mind what we posted before - people do not always know the difference, hence the error. Saving Changes...
Marius CloeteCEO| ProjectManagement.co.zaCape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
From your answer I gather that the editors of the PMBOK Guide do not know the difference between method and methodology either, and that the example that I quoted confirms the error in their thinking. Did I understand you correctly? Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Inside the PMBOK glossary of terms you can fnd the definition of most of them. That´s will be valid for people that agree on the PMBOK as the guide and the PMI as the organization to define and deliniate the discipline. But there are others organizations like IPMA, GPM or OCG (Prince2) and IEEE that you can follow and search for the definition too. What it is clear is that the PMBOK is a guide and it is not a method or methodology definied inside it. Any BOK you will find (EABOK, SWEBOK, BABOK, etc) is the same. If you adhere to the guide then you will create your own method/methodology (both words are not the same) as many of us have been done from years.
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1 reply by Marius Cloete
Feb 23, 2016 1:55 PM
Marius Cloete
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I started this discussion because I genuinely hoped to get clarity from the community. I do not have an agenda other than to just understand where I misunderstand.
I used examples of terms in need of common definitions within the PMI Community. If I were active in another community (e.g., the IPMA community), I would not expect them to lead me to the PMI publications for clarity of terms that they're using.
The following terms, which I used as as examples when I started this discussion, are not defined in either the glossary of the PMBOK Guide--Fifth Edition, or in the PMI Lexicon of Project Management Terms (Version 3):
Framework (used amongst PMI members in blogs and online postings, along with 'model', and a host of other collective terms.
Model (used to indicate just about anything collective within the ambit of project management).
Method (or methodology, or whatever, as we've seen in the above postings)
Discipline (used loosely to denote, inter alia, the project management profession)
Plan (used loosely in blogs and postings to denote project plan, or project management plan, or just a collective set of actions or tasks, or sometimes used as a collective for activities)
The following terms, included in my original list, are defined in one or both of the above-mentioned PMI publications:
Methodology (As I pointed up in an earlier response in this thread, this term is used to denote anything from a vague method to distilled methodology, and anything in between.)
Standard (Let me not go here, this is a minefield that helps 'methodology' look like a baby's first word.)
Process
The essence of my submission is that, in many instances, the terms are not used consistently (even in the PMBOK Guide), as I pointed out in this posting about Methodology.
Reading through the PMBOK Guide, here is another example of disparity:
The definition of Scope Management Plan
Glossary definition: A component of the project or program management plan that describes how the scope will be defined, developed monitored controlled, and verified.
Lexicon definition: A component of the project or program management plan that describes how the scope will be defined, developed monitored controlled, and validated.
The PMI states that since the launch of the Lexicon in 2012, '...the PMI standard development committees have been chartered to use the PMI Lexicon definitions without modification.' (Preface Version 3). And yet, the definition of Scope Management Plan, and us such the implications of the difference between verified and validated when managing projects in the real world, is critical.
Coming back to my original question: Would it not be advisable to have a repository of terms, such as those mentioned in this postings, to guide those of us at the bottom of the feeding chain, through this treacherous terrain?
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
On the other side, and perhaps I was part of group of authors working on glossary of terms from some of the BOKs, I firmly beleive that we need to concentrate the definitions inside the group that have been designated for the organization to create the glossary of terms. In fact, after a BOK is created and publish for revision, it is open to the community for making any type of changes before the final publication.
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1 reply by Tania Melnyczuk
Feb 23, 2016 9:30 AM
Tania Melnyczuk
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Sorry, I'm a bit lost... You write: "I firmly beleive that we need to concentrate the definitions inside the group that have been designated for the organization to create the glossary of terms."
Which group and organisation are you referring to in this context, and when should this discussion take place?