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Agreement on definition of 'methodology' and related terms

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Marius Cloete CEO| ProjectManagement.co.za Cape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
Am I the only one starting to feel uneasy noticing the term 'methodology' in so many postings?

Since the PMBOK's foundation is the building of common project management language through the careful crafting of definitions, how about we decide as a community to agree on working definitions for
framework, model, method, methodology, standard, discipline, plan, process and a few other related terms?
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
The term methodology is defined inside the PMBOK“s glossary of terms. The term method is not. And I fully agree with Mounir: the issue is using both interchangeably.
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Anonymous
Feb 19, 2016 12:14 PM
Replying to Marius Cloete
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From your answer I gather that the editors of the PMBOK Guide do not know the difference between method and methodology either, and that the example that I quoted confirms the error in their thinking. Did I understand you correctly?
Marius

PMBOK Guide what? Editors? Who are those?

Have you read the guide Notice Page - just inside the cover?
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1 reply by Marius Cloete
Feb 23, 2016 1:57 PM
Marius Cloete
...
Hi, Mounir


Replies to your questions, as I understand them:

"PMBOK Guide what? Editors? Who are those?"

I referred to the PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition (including changes to reflect the Second Errata Printing, also noticing further possible errata needed on p. 11).

"Have you read the guide Notice Page - just inside the cover?"

Yes, it's a kind of disclaimer.

I referred to the person called 'Book Editor' in the Title Page of the PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition. From what I understand about publications, this person liaises with the contributors and reviewers of the publication. They are listed in the groups on pp. 483-495 of the PMBOKĀ® Guide- Fifth Edition. These groups include: PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition Core Committee, Subcommittee, and Content Committee.

My understanding is that these people, and those mentioned in other groups in the aforementioned pages, are also responsible for editing the PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition.
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Tania Melnyczuk Director: Programme Design| ProjectManagement.co.za Cape Town, South Africa
Feb 19, 2016 1:17 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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On the other side, and perhaps I was part of group of authors working on glossary of terms from some of the BOKs, I firmly beleive that we need to concentrate the definitions inside the group that have been designated for the organization to create the glossary of terms. In fact, after a BOK is created and publish for revision, it is open to the community for making any type of changes before the final publication.
Sorry, I'm a bit lost... You write: "I firmly beleive that we need to concentrate the definitions inside the group that have been designated for the organization to create the glossary of terms."

Which group and organisation are you referring to in this context, and when should this discussion take place?
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Marius Cloete CEO| ProjectManagement.co.za Cape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
Feb 19, 2016 1:14 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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Inside the PMBOK glossary of terms you can fnd the definition of most of them. That“s will be valid for people that agree on the PMBOK as the guide and the PMI as the organization to define and deliniate the discipline. But there are others organizations like IPMA, GPM or OCG (Prince2) and IEEE that you can follow and search for the definition too. What it is clear is that the PMBOK is a guide and it is not a method or methodology definied inside it. Any BOK you will find (EABOK, SWEBOK, BABOK, etc) is the same. If you adhere to the guide then you will create your own method/methodology (both words are not the same) as many of us have been done from years.
I started this discussion because I genuinely hoped to get clarity from the community. I do not have an agenda other than to just understand where I misunderstand.

I used examples of terms in need of common definitions within the PMI Community. If I were active in another community (e.g., the IPMA community), I would not expect them to lead me to the PMI publications for clarity of terms that they're using.

The following terms, which I used as as examples when I started this discussion, are not defined in either the glossary of the PMBOK Guide--Fifth Edition, or in the PMI Lexicon of Project Management Terms (Version 3):

Framework (used amongst PMI members in blogs and online postings, along with 'model', and a host of other collective terms.
Model (used to indicate just about anything collective within the ambit of project management).
Method (or methodology, or whatever, as we've seen in the above postings)
Discipline (used loosely to denote, inter alia, the project management profession)
Plan (used loosely in blogs and postings to denote project plan, or project management plan, or just a collective set of actions or tasks, or sometimes used as a collective for activities)

The following terms, included in my original list, are defined in one or both of the above-mentioned PMI publications:

Methodology (As I pointed up in an earlier response in this thread, this term is used to denote anything from a vague method to distilled methodology, and anything in between.)
Standard (Let me not go here, this is a minefield that helps 'methodology' look like a baby's first word.)
Process

The essence of my submission is that, in many instances, the terms are not used consistently (even in the PMBOK Guide), as I pointed out in this posting about Methodology.

Reading through the PMBOK Guide, here is another example of disparity:

The definition of Scope Management Plan
Glossary definition: A component of the project or program management plan that describes how the scope will be defined, developed monitored controlled, and verified.
Lexicon definition: A component of the project or program management plan that describes how the scope will be defined, developed monitored controlled, and validated.

The PMI states that since the launch of the Lexicon in 2012, '...the PMI standard development committees have been chartered to use the PMI Lexicon definitions without modification.' (Preface Version 3). And yet, the definition of Scope Management Plan, and us such the implications of the difference between verified and validated when managing projects in the real world, is critical.

Coming back to my original question: Would it not be advisable to have a repository of terms, such as those mentioned in this postings, to guide those of us at the bottom of the feeding chain, through this treacherous terrain?
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Feb 23, 2016 3:06 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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I have participated inside the team of authors of various of the BOKs. (not only the PMBOK) and standards or extensions to the BOKs. What we did is defining the terms that are critical to the profession and critical to understand the BOK inside the BOK glossary of terms. Terms are critical to a profession. If you study epistemology as I have studied to create a method, methdology or discipline you will understand that terms are primitives (most of them) to define the core of the discipline. So, to have well defined terms is critical. About your question, you have to ask to the PMI, not to the project management community. Why? Because the PMI is the organization that is defining the discipline for those people who adhere to the PMI (other organizations are defined the discipline too).
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Marius Cloete CEO| ProjectManagement.co.za Cape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
Hi, Mounir


Replies to your questions, as I understand them:

"PMBOK Guide what? Editors? Who are those?"

I referred to the PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition (including changes to reflect the Second Errata Printing, also noticing further possible errata needed on p. 11).

"Have you read the guide Notice Page - just inside the cover?"

Yes, it's a kind of disclaimer.

I referred to the person called 'Book Editor' in the Title Page of the PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition. From what I understand about publications, this person liaises with the contributors and reviewers of the publication. They are listed in the groups on pp. 483-495 of the PMBOKĀ® Guide- Fifth Edition. These groups include: PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition Core Committee, Subcommittee, and Content Committee.

My understanding is that these people, and those mentioned in other groups in the aforementioned pages, are also responsible for editing the PMBOKĀ® Guide--Fifth Edition.
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Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
Feb 23, 2016 1:55 PM
Replying to Marius Cloete
...
I started this discussion because I genuinely hoped to get clarity from the community. I do not have an agenda other than to just understand where I misunderstand.

I used examples of terms in need of common definitions within the PMI Community. If I were active in another community (e.g., the IPMA community), I would not expect them to lead me to the PMI publications for clarity of terms that they're using.

The following terms, which I used as as examples when I started this discussion, are not defined in either the glossary of the PMBOK Guide--Fifth Edition, or in the PMI Lexicon of Project Management Terms (Version 3):

Framework (used amongst PMI members in blogs and online postings, along with 'model', and a host of other collective terms.
Model (used to indicate just about anything collective within the ambit of project management).
Method (or methodology, or whatever, as we've seen in the above postings)
Discipline (used loosely to denote, inter alia, the project management profession)
Plan (used loosely in blogs and postings to denote project plan, or project management plan, or just a collective set of actions or tasks, or sometimes used as a collective for activities)

The following terms, included in my original list, are defined in one or both of the above-mentioned PMI publications:

Methodology (As I pointed up in an earlier response in this thread, this term is used to denote anything from a vague method to distilled methodology, and anything in between.)
Standard (Let me not go here, this is a minefield that helps 'methodology' look like a baby's first word.)
Process

The essence of my submission is that, in many instances, the terms are not used consistently (even in the PMBOK Guide), as I pointed out in this posting about Methodology.

Reading through the PMBOK Guide, here is another example of disparity:

The definition of Scope Management Plan
Glossary definition: A component of the project or program management plan that describes how the scope will be defined, developed monitored controlled, and verified.
Lexicon definition: A component of the project or program management plan that describes how the scope will be defined, developed monitored controlled, and validated.

The PMI states that since the launch of the Lexicon in 2012, '...the PMI standard development committees have been chartered to use the PMI Lexicon definitions without modification.' (Preface Version 3). And yet, the definition of Scope Management Plan, and us such the implications of the difference between verified and validated when managing projects in the real world, is critical.

Coming back to my original question: Would it not be advisable to have a repository of terms, such as those mentioned in this postings, to guide those of us at the bottom of the feeding chain, through this treacherous terrain?
I have participated inside the team of authors of various of the BOKs. (not only the PMBOK) and standards or extensions to the BOKs. What we did is defining the terms that are critical to the profession and critical to understand the BOK inside the BOK glossary of terms. Terms are critical to a profession. If you study epistemology as I have studied to create a method, methdology or discipline you will understand that terms are primitives (most of them) to define the core of the discipline. So, to have well defined terms is critical. About your question, you have to ask to the PMI, not to the project management community. Why? Because the PMI is the organization that is defining the discipline for those people who adhere to the PMI (other organizations are defined the discipline too).
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1 reply by Marius Cloete
Feb 25, 2016 2:03 AM
Marius Cloete
...
Thanks, Sergio. You are much closer the the fire than I am. I hope that you can tell me who to approach at the PMI, and how to go about. It would be great if I can obtain clarity about 'standards' (posted elsewhere in this forum) at the same time. Looking forward to advice and direction.
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StƩphane Parent Self Employed / Semi-retired| Leader Maker Prince Edward Island, Canada
Feb 19, 2016 9:19 AM
Replying to Tania Melnyczuk
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"At the end - I am not one of those who is stuck on terminologies - to me what is important is to understand then use what you prefer."

OK, so whether one says PMBOK or PMBOK Guide, Project Manager or Project Leader, Sponsor or Champion, it doesn't really matter what other people think you mean, as long as you know what you actually mean? ;-)

To be clear, though: I don't 'mind' either, as long as there is consistency and agreement to agree amongst the stakeholders, and at least sommmmmme alignment to something which is generally accepted too.

Here's why:

We worked with one organisation which used the term 'Project Manager' to denote what in regular Project Management would probably call a 'Regional Manager' in the organisation.

There was also another organisation which similarly would call a location where they did business a 'project'. So their head office, as well as their Kinshasa office, were 'projects'. However, in their case, a 'Project Manager' was not a Regional Manager; it had a different meaning.

The problem was, although they used this terminology consistently amongst themselves, it was impossible to proceed with any kind of training even vaguely aligned to international standards, because you'd have to have a glossary to translate their internal jargon. ("Remember, guys, operations means projects, projects means offices, project managers means... etc. Now, in reverse, if you read the texbooks,translate project manager to what we call a contract lead, and translate project to assignment," etc., etc. ad confuseam.)

The first organisation agreed to change their terminology. That meant their employees could then read books on Project Management, and it would be applicable to their (new) understanding of 'project', 'project manager', 'project management', and so on.

The second organisation insisted on continuing with the confusing internal standard which they were using internationally across all continents in their home-built 'Project Portal'. We walked away.
I find it particularly disappointing when I see software packages like enterprise resources planning (ERP) and integrated development environment (IDE) solutions use the word "project" to simply designate a container, a group of elements.
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Marius Cloete CEO| ProjectManagement.co.za Cape Town, Western Provice, South Africa
Feb 23, 2016 3:06 PM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
I have participated inside the team of authors of various of the BOKs. (not only the PMBOK) and standards or extensions to the BOKs. What we did is defining the terms that are critical to the profession and critical to understand the BOK inside the BOK glossary of terms. Terms are critical to a profession. If you study epistemology as I have studied to create a method, methdology or discipline you will understand that terms are primitives (most of them) to define the core of the discipline. So, to have well defined terms is critical. About your question, you have to ask to the PMI, not to the project management community. Why? Because the PMI is the organization that is defining the discipline for those people who adhere to the PMI (other organizations are defined the discipline too).
Thanks, Sergio. You are much closer the the fire than I am. I hope that you can tell me who to approach at the PMI, and how to go about. It would be great if I can obtain clarity about 'standards' (posted elsewhere in this forum) at the same time. Looking forward to advice and direction.
avatar
Sergio Luis Conte Helping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based Organizations Buenos Aires, Argentina
In my case all we did was search the way to do that and to apply for volunteer positions inside the insitute (PMI and others) I was interested to participate. To apply you have to acredite some profile. People from the PMI is aware of this site. At least, in my case, when I expressed a concern I received an email from somebody inside the PMI to understand the issue. The PMI site has a place where you can apply as a volunteer to work with standards.
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Anonymous
Sorry I have been out since my internet was acting funny and was not allowing me on this site - anyway I think all points have been raised and answered.

The bottom like, as I said before - do not hope for a common language; a nice dream.
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