When you are hiring a Project Manager, do you specify the level of Project Manager you are looking for e.g., junior, intermediary or senior, or do you place a job posting for a Project Manager and once hired, you determine their level based on their experience? I am having this discussion right now within my organization and I'd like to see what people think. Saving Changes...
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Karthik RamamurthyAuthor, Say YES to Project Success| Founder KeyResultzChennai, Tamilnadu, Tamilnadu, India
Good point of discussion.
However, the only answer I can provide based on over 2.5 decades of experience in the field is this:
A lot of this is dependent on company size, industry, geography, etc.
You should ideally choose something that makes most sense to the internal HR folk, ensuring, at the same time, that the nomenclature will be understandable to potential applicants.
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1 reply by anonymous
Aug 22, 2016 1:42 PM
anonymous
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Thanks for the reply. This is the problem I am having with HR. HR is tagging the title based on job band which is tied to salary range. I, on the other hand, am making the argument that the salary range does not matter. What matters is the experience. By following HR's logic, in a hot market, I could pay a junior or intermediary PM a salary that places them into the Senior job band but my argument is that the job band should not matter, the experience should.
Most times, the level is determined by the salary range afforded by the organization. Based on the range, you would be better off providing the level in the job description (as a range of years of experience etc.), so that you don't have too many levels applying Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Aug 22, 2016 1:37 PM
Replying to Karthik Ramamurthy
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Good point of discussion.
However, the only answer I can provide based on over 2.5 decades of experience in the field is this:
A lot of this is dependent on company size, industry, geography, etc.
You should ideally choose something that makes most sense to the internal HR folk, ensuring, at the same time, that the nomenclature will be understandable to potential applicants.
Thanks for the reply. This is the problem I am having with HR. HR is tagging the title based on job band which is tied to salary range. I, on the other hand, am making the argument that the salary range does not matter. What matters is the experience. By following HR's logic, in a hot market, I could pay a junior or intermediary PM a salary that places them into the Senior job band but my argument is that the job band should not matter, the experience should.
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1 reply by Samuel Vaddi
Aug 22, 2016 1:46 PM
Samuel Vaddi
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I think you should begin with: What type of projects will this person manage? And what level of experience is needed to manage those types of projects?
Thanks for the reply. This is the problem I am having with HR. HR is tagging the title based on job band which is tied to salary range. I, on the other hand, am making the argument that the salary range does not matter. What matters is the experience. By following HR's logic, in a hot market, I could pay a junior or intermediary PM a salary that places them into the Senior job band but my argument is that the job band should not matter, the experience should.
I think you should begin with: What type of projects will this person manage? And what level of experience is needed to manage those types of projects? Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
I somehow agree with Karthik - You can put what level you are looking for and at the same time evaluate this during the interview but it depends on many factors. Saving Changes...
While salary often equates to expertise - the salary for a PM will vary greatly between companies and industries. I would focus on the experience, project dollar value and skills required for your company and leave the "level" of PM out. Saving Changes...
AKSHAY JAINPlanning Group Leader| YOKOGAWA, BahrainGwalior, Mp, India
Terms like "junior, intermediary or senior" are not common but yes each project manager cant manage all projects. It will depend upon complexity of project. Ways to decide complexity of project is technology involve, number of people in project and their education levels. If project involve high technology with big team( more than 50 member) of engineers, functional manager, technologist etc working under him then such project need highly competent manager with good domain skills, people management skills, time management skill, coordination skill, leadership qualities etc. Cost of such Project manager will be high. On there other hand if you have small project, say just 10 team members and simple low skill routine works, then you don't need PM with lot of skills and cost is also low. Saving Changes...
As mentioned by others, it all depends on the industry, geographic location, organization size, etc. As per my experience, the first choice of management is, Project Managers internal to the organization. Also positions rolled out are for Assistant Manager, PM, and Senior Manager. Saving Changes...
Scott SaleProgram Manager| KindredLouisville, Ky, United States
If I understand your situation you are the hiring manager and you working with HR to fill a "new" position. It appears you are being asked to fill out a job requisition and then you are submitting the criteria for the job. If this is a correct you will need to know a couple of things internal and external. As other have eluded to you need to know the type of company, type of projects and what you are looking for experience (you already know these things). Based on that information HR has a job to do and that is quantify the experience. How many years in PM? Education level College degree Y/N? Does the individual need to be a PMP?
We the hiring managers have a job to do along with the HR group. The HR group has predetermined criteria with experience/qualification that equals = Salary & band.
Based on your comment job band should not matter experience should matter. Yes, that is true but a I am not going to find a Oracle ERP program manager under 120,00K in any market so this we know this automatically puts them into a higher job band. Now, I could find someone who doesn't have a degree, is not a PMP, held various titles in IT but the person can run IT infrastructure projects. This is a resume that you "could" get and you "could" get lucky but this is rare.
Going back to your comment here are a couple of takeaways:
- Know your job descriptions. Write the job description and work with HR to fit it to your specific need.
- Know the Market. If you are looking for experience, know and understand what you will pay for as it relates to that experience.
- We as PMs know our worth. We know the difference in the band (jr, sr, program manager). We know that salary does come into play with experience. Saving Changes...
Julia CunninghamManager Project Management| BattelleRichland, Wa, United States
We determine grade by evaluation of the likely project portfolio that the PM will manage. We have had some success with "dual" posting a senior / principal project management position, which allows us more flexibility to match the candidate to the performance level indicators for the career levels in the project manager job family. Saving Changes...
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