Khushboo SinghProject Manager| Envestnet|YodleeBangalore, Karnataka, India
How do we estimate an Agile project?
Should we simply go ahead and work with Architects, Solution Designers, Developers and Testers and find out how much effort is needed from their side; add project management effort and buffer?
Practically, do we use a different methodology for Agile Schedule Estimation? Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
The estimation will depends on the method you will use just in case you are using one. One of the best piece of work I found is Michael Cohn´s "Agile Estimating a Planning". I believe that you have to take a look. Saving Changes...
For agile projects I've used successfully the three point estimation to estimate tasks for each of the user stories. I've used this method with sysadmins, designers and developers. Add some project management effort for daily standup and report to stakeholders. All my Agile Projects were on T&M and didn't required buffer time. I used the 3 point estimation for sprints of 2 weeks duration. The method you choose can also depend on the sprint duration. Saving Changes...
Khushboo SinghProject Manager| Envestnet|YodleeBangalore, Karnataka, India
Thanks for the reply. My question was from a project/product perspective instead of User Story/Task.
I would give an example -
My client is coming up with an entire product to be built/developed/tested/launched.
When do we provide budget and schedule estimate to client?
I would need to provide an estimate to the client before I start the actual work on the product.
In the beginning of the project, developers/testers would not be involved and only Business along with PM would have to come up with estimation.
At this stage, how do we estimate budget and schedule?
Do we decompose the project/product in features; estimate schedule and budget for features; add estimate for all the features and then come up with the final estimation?
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1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Oct 19, 2016 6:26 AM
Adrian Carlogea
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Without the input of the people who will be doing the actual work you can't estimate a project. Well you can come up with an estimation but almost certain it will be very inaccurate. It doesn't matter what project management methodology you are using the technical expert's input is crucial for any kind of estimation that involves the actual work that has to be performed.
When the developers start working the first thing they will notice is that the plan is unrealistic and the project will not finish in time. They will come up with their own estimations that are going to be more realistic. Some developers will try to finish in time but at a high cost: poor code that will be unmanageable in the future, a large number of defects and an inefficient software.
To provide an estimation for your client for the entire product it can be done similar with traditional waterfall from a requirement workshop. You can follow the same processes that your organization use to estimate waterfall projects. Saving Changes...
Thanks for the reply. My question was from a project/product perspective instead of User Story/Task.
I would give an example -
My client is coming up with an entire product to be built/developed/tested/launched.
When do we provide budget and schedule estimate to client?
I would need to provide an estimate to the client before I start the actual work on the product.
In the beginning of the project, developers/testers would not be involved and only Business along with PM would have to come up with estimation.
At this stage, how do we estimate budget and schedule?
Do we decompose the project/product in features; estimate schedule and budget for features; add estimate for all the features and then come up with the final estimation?
Without the input of the people who will be doing the actual work you can't estimate a project. Well you can come up with an estimation but almost certain it will be very inaccurate. It doesn't matter what project management methodology you are using the technical expert's input is crucial for any kind of estimation that involves the actual work that has to be performed.
When the developers start working the first thing they will notice is that the plan is unrealistic and the project will not finish in time. They will come up with their own estimations that are going to be more realistic. Some developers will try to finish in time but at a high cost: poor code that will be unmanageable in the future, a large number of defects and an inefficient software. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
It is the same no matter the environment you are,working on. You can provide the,estimation at any time BUT you hace to take into account the error inside your estimation because the amount of information you hace at that time. Ser Barry Bohem's "cone of uncertainty" which,is the guide you hace to follow. Saving Changes...
Khushboo SinghProject Manager| Envestnet|YodleeBangalore, Karnataka, India
That makes sense to me.
To sum up, if a PM has to provide Schedule and Budget Estimate before starting the actual design and development work, he/she has to follow traditional waterfall estimation. This estimate can be padded for uncertainty to come up with the final estimate.
Alternatively, a PM can provide be honest and say that this is our rough estimate and provided client gives us a couple of iterations to build, he/she would be in a better position to measure and assess the schedule and budget estimate.
Or, estimates can be provided as ranges. PM can provide different ranges for worst case, most likely and best case.
Lastly, PM can ask client to fund money incrementally; either on a feature basis or iteration basis or any other suitable way.
Yet, a final question would be how to earn client's confidence if multiple Developing organizations are bidding, that my organization would be the best suited?
Would a client go for organizations' brand name or historical project completion or a prototype or a homework done on schedule/budget/risk/assumptions?
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1 reply by Adrian Carlogea
Oct 19, 2016 7:28 AM
Adrian Carlogea
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Without the input from the developers how are you going to produce the effort estimates for the tasks that are going to be performed? Are you going to use a magic ball for that? :P
On all the projects that I have worked at the beginning the technical experts were asked to define all the tasks that have to be completed for a phase and then give effort estimates for each one. I think this is where your project estimation should start.
That makes sense to me.
To sum up, if a PM has to provide Schedule and Budget Estimate before starting the actual design and development work, he/she has to follow traditional waterfall estimation. This estimate can be padded for uncertainty to come up with the final estimate.
Alternatively, a PM can provide be honest and say that this is our rough estimate and provided client gives us a couple of iterations to build, he/she would be in a better position to measure and assess the schedule and budget estimate.
Or, estimates can be provided as ranges. PM can provide different ranges for worst case, most likely and best case.
Lastly, PM can ask client to fund money incrementally; either on a feature basis or iteration basis or any other suitable way.
Yet, a final question would be how to earn client's confidence if multiple Developing organizations are bidding, that my organization would be the best suited?
Would a client go for organizations' brand name or historical project completion or a prototype or a homework done on schedule/budget/risk/assumptions?
Without the input from the developers how are you going to produce the effort estimates for the tasks that are going to be performed? Are you going to use a magic ball for that? :P
On all the projects that I have worked at the beginning the technical experts were asked to define all the tasks that have to be completed for a phase and then give effort estimates for each one. I think this is where your project estimation should start. Saving Changes...
Khushboo SinghProject Manager| Envestnet|YodleeBangalore, Karnataka, India
That's right Adrian.
I had the same question; how can we propose schedule and budget estimate to our client in the beginning of the project; if we have not started the actual work.
That's why I mentioned the multiple alternatives.
I am not sure which one could be used and need clarification on the same. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
You have mostly answered your own questions, Khushboo. I favour pricing by the sprint/iteration since the duration and team can be fixed. The scope simply becomes an input and you have to figure out how many sprints you will need or want to go through.
As for your question on how the client will select the provider, I would say all of the above. Of course, you should be able to look at the RFP for the exact evaluation criteria used for that project. Saving Changes...
