Sanjay BhureConsultant| PMP, Master Black Belt, Lean Six Sigma BB, MBA, Lead Auditor (QMS), CEngPune, Maharashtra, India
In PMBoK 5th edition, the chapters are divided with respect to Knowledge Area. But the actual project is having phases(i.e. Process Groups), so why didn't the chapters in PMBoK make with respect to Process Group?
Please correct me, if I am wrong. Saving Changes...
Project have phases ---- AND ---- Process groups ------------------
The process groups ARE NOT phases Saving Changes...
Anonymous
If you want the PMBOK Guide to be written by process groups then you have very short Initiating and Closing Chapters and the Planning Chapter would be half the book.
Now, besides the issue of chapters size - why does it matter?
The PMBOK Guide and ISO 21500 covers the processes for managing a phase or a project - but these are guides, not methodologies nor they are manual.
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1 reply by Jim Branden
Nov 20, 2017 8:23 AM
Jim Branden
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Mounir, just one question; what do you mean by your last statement, "nor they are manual"?
I agree neither ISO 21500 or the PMBO(r) Guide are methodologies.
In a sense they are, because the knowledge areas fall under a certain process group. It makes better sense to divide chapters into knowledge areas than process groups. Imagine if there was a Chapter: "Planning Process Group". It would be a nightmare to navigate. If I want to find detailed information on Plan Cost Management or Sequence Activities, I would need to sift through maybe 250 pages within the Planning Process Group chapter. But if you want these process groups by chapter, just skip to Part 2 of PMBOK 6, at page 561, where they start chapters based on process groups, although very watered down. Saving Changes...
And oh yes, to Mounir's point, phases aren't process groups. Saving Changes...
Sanjay BhureConsultant| PMP, Master Black Belt, Lean Six Sigma BB, MBA, Lead Auditor (QMS), CEngPune, Maharashtra, India
Dear Sirs,
Thanks for your Comments and suggestions.
I have only 5-6 years of PM experience. So I always accept expert suggestions.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean it, Yes phases are not Process Groups.
I think to understand the project management, Process Groups, and Knowledge Areas, if one will follow the Project Life Cycle, then it could be easy.
As in the Project Life Cycle, the sequence of Process Groups is (With some overlapping) 1. Initiating 2. Planning 3. Executing. 4. Monitoring and Controlling 5. Closing
Then to understand a project, start it from first Initialing Process Group and go forward and study/ understand the Knowledge Area in the respective Process Groups.
Yes off-course, the size of some chapters would be more, but again it can be divided into sub-chapters.
Isn't it could be a possible methodology to study/understand Project Management?
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1 reply by Jim Branden
Nov 20, 2017 9:04 AM
Jim Branden
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Sanjay,
One of the best ways to understand an overview of Project Management and how the Process Groups and Knowledge Areas (KA) relate: refer to my favorite page in the fifth Ed PMBOK® Guide: p-61!
Notice the following observations:
1- Project Integration is the only KA that involves all five process groups
2- The first deliverable in every KA creates a "Knowledge Area Management Plan" - the PM and SMEs need to know how they will manage a KA before jumping into the work of that KA!
3- The Executing Process Group (completed by the "Project Production Team") produces the deliverables per the "PM Plan for Success" when and as authorized by the PM. Therefore, the "Project Production Team" has no worries (notice no processes) dealing with Scope, Time, Cost or Risks! [This Ah-Ha! moment helps many students realize the relationship between "Executing" and the PM's / Senior SME's role in "Monitoring & Controlling"]
4- Monitoring & Controlling does not have a process dealing with HR! [Note, I believe the sixth Edition PMBOK® Guide changed this!]
Lastly, other Ah-Ha moments come from understanding my second most favorite page in the fifth Ed PMBOK® Guide: p-78!
Notice the following observations:
5- The Left column contains "all and only" the content of the "PM Plan for Success"
6- The "PM Plan for Success" contains nine of 10 KA Management Plans - do you know which KA is not one of the nine?
7- The "PM Plan for Success" includes three baselines (one of which includes three parts)
8- The "PM Plan for Success" includes four Management Plans that deal with special aspects of Scope and Quality
9- The middle and right columns include 38 items of which 11 become "a document" (subject to progressive elaboration and change during Monitoring & Controlling) and 18 items that name multiple items repeatedly produced throughout the project's life cycle.
I do not know off the top of my head the page numbers of these two tables in the sixth Edition of the PMBOK® Guide. When you fully understand the implications of the above nine points, you will have a solid foundation in PM!
Happy Thanksgiving. Jim
Saving Changes...
Jim BrandenSenior Project Manager| Retired from UNC Charlotte - IT Services - PPMOCharlotte, Nc, United States
Mounir, just one question; what do you mean by your last statement, "nor they are manual"?
I agree neither ISO 21500 or the PMBO(r) Guide are methodologies.
Process Groups are an artificial construct to provide a matrix for organizing the 47 (or 49 if you are Sixth Edition focused) knowledge areas alongside Knowledge Areas.
Beyond that, it's unfortunate that the names PMI's committee picked match those used by many organizations for their lifecycle phases.
Remember that projects can have multiple different types of lifecycle - organizing the PMBOK Guide by Process Group might have been relevant to projects following a strict sequential lifecycle, but for adaptive lifecycles, it would have just made things more confusing to do so.
Kiron Saving Changes...
Jim BrandenSenior Project Manager| Retired from UNC Charlotte - IT Services - PPMOCharlotte, Nc, United States
Nov 20, 2017 7:24 AM
Replying to Sanjay Bhure
...
Dear Sirs,
Thanks for your Comments and suggestions.
I have only 5-6 years of PM experience. So I always accept expert suggestions.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean it, Yes phases are not Process Groups.
I think to understand the project management, Process Groups, and Knowledge Areas, if one will follow the Project Life Cycle, then it could be easy.
As in the Project Life Cycle, the sequence of Process Groups is (With some overlapping) 1. Initiating 2. Planning 3. Executing. 4. Monitoring and Controlling 5. Closing
Then to understand a project, start it from first Initialing Process Group and go forward and study/ understand the Knowledge Area in the respective Process Groups.
Yes off-course, the size of some chapters would be more, but again it can be divided into sub-chapters.
Isn't it could be a possible methodology to study/understand Project Management?
Sanjay,
One of the best ways to understand an overview of Project Management and how the Process Groups and Knowledge Areas (KA) relate: refer to my favorite page in the fifth Ed PMBOK® Guide: p-61!
Notice the following observations:
1- Project Integration is the only KA that involves all five process groups
2- The first deliverable in every KA creates a "Knowledge Area Management Plan" - the PM and SMEs need to know how they will manage a KA before jumping into the work of that KA!
3- The Executing Process Group (completed by the "Project Production Team") produces the deliverables per the "PM Plan for Success" when and as authorized by the PM. Therefore, the "Project Production Team" has no worries (notice no processes) dealing with Scope, Time, Cost or Risks! [This Ah-Ha! moment helps many students realize the relationship between "Executing" and the PM's / Senior SME's role in "Monitoring & Controlling"]
4- Monitoring & Controlling does not have a process dealing with HR! [Note, I believe the sixth Edition PMBOK® Guide changed this!]
Lastly, other Ah-Ha moments come from understanding my second most favorite page in the fifth Ed PMBOK® Guide: p-78!
Notice the following observations:
5- The Left column contains "all and only" the content of the "PM Plan for Success"
6- The "PM Plan for Success" contains nine of 10 KA Management Plans - do you know which KA is not one of the nine?
7- The "PM Plan for Success" includes three baselines (one of which includes three parts)
8- The "PM Plan for Success" includes four Management Plans that deal with special aspects of Scope and Quality
9- The middle and right columns include 38 items of which 11 become "a document" (subject to progressive elaboration and change during Monitoring & Controlling) and 18 items that name multiple items repeatedly produced throughout the project's life cycle.
I do not know off the top of my head the page numbers of these two tables in the sixth Edition of the PMBOK® Guide. When you fully understand the implications of the above nine points, you will have a solid foundation in PM!
Happy Thanksgiving. Jim Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Take a look to the new version of PMBOK. Everything is better explained there. Beyond great comments above, and trying to add something, let me say.
1-the process group tried to express a "dynamic" that is aligned with PDCA cycle (Plan-Do.Check Act). BUT it does not determine or prescribe a project life cycle.
2-you have to select your own project life cycle to do things and to implement the process you decide to take from the PMBOK. Just is case you use a method (for example a software development method) the project life cycle is embeded into it.
3-if you can take a look to the book "Visualizing project management" or take a look to @Mounir Ajam webpage (Mounir, I do not know if it is alive today) which contains great information about the matter. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Nov 20, 2017 7:24 AM
Replying to Sanjay Bhure
...
Dear Sirs,
Thanks for your Comments and suggestions.
I have only 5-6 years of PM experience. So I always accept expert suggestions.
Oh sorry, I didn't mean it, Yes phases are not Process Groups.
I think to understand the project management, Process Groups, and Knowledge Areas, if one will follow the Project Life Cycle, then it could be easy.
As in the Project Life Cycle, the sequence of Process Groups is (With some overlapping) 1. Initiating 2. Planning 3. Executing. 4. Monitoring and Controlling 5. Closing
Then to understand a project, start it from first Initialing Process Group and go forward and study/ understand the Knowledge Area in the respective Process Groups.
Yes off-course, the size of some chapters would be more, but again it can be divided into sub-chapters.
Isn't it could be a possible methodology to study/understand Project Management?
Dear Sir - Sanjay
You continue to make the same mistake. First, you said phases (process groups).
Then you said you understand that process groups are not project phases,
But you continued by talking about project life cycle with the process groups.
Please note, the project life cycle typically spans a project from idea to closure. Along a typical project life cycle, the project will be divided into phases, and each phase has a purpose. The phases could be something like this: Feasibility, Requirements, Basic Design, Engineering, Construction, Commissioning and Start-Up, project close. Technically, in each of these phases, the process groups (or PM Processes) happen ........ so the process groups (processes) REPEAT in each phase of the project. This is the ISO/PMBOK Guide situation. Saving Changes...
