Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
I know this subject might have been discussed previously but again, I am interested to specifically know to what degree does Agiel apply in Construction & Real Estate Developments ?
Please share your professional opinion. Thanks ! Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 22, 2018 3:36 PM
Replying to Kiron Bondale
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More than that, it's a mindset. This is why I drew the parallel to the quality movement. Once you start thinking agile, you see opportunities to apply agility in ANY context.
Think Neo once he starts seeing The Matrix for what it really is :-)
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 22, 2018 7:56 PM
Replying to Vincent Guerard
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Each time we talk about Agile in other field then IT, I don't see any clear examples.
I agree it is a mind set but would love to have more practical applications!
Totally agree. This is exactly what I am looking for. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
I will only say this
You can be agile (flexible) everywhere
You can use SOME agility concepts on projects or business
BUT
There is NO Agile Project Management or Agile PM Methodology
In other words, there is NO AGILE as an end-to-end project life cycle model; at least in capital projects and construction. Sure, on capital projects, we can USE SOME concepts in one stage or another - but using some concepts that does not make it Agile Project Management Saving Changes...
Anton OosthuizenSenior Business Analyst / Project Manager| Self EmployedPretoria, Gauteng, South Africa
Maybe if we break down Agile into different components (what makes it agile) then it would be easier to see the practical application. The most important of these components is the concept of incremental delivery, thus incremental planning. The fact that we only do detailed planning for the next 'release' and vague planning for something that will be delivered in 12 months time allows us some room to change without breaking everything (agility). It is important to remember that the concept of agility is different for different domains.
In software development, the ability to change in two weeks (typical iteration cycle) is considered as agile but it makes no sense in construction which is more like a big cargo ship that takes a while to change direction.
In construction, you would not necessarily do fortnightly planning sessions, it will adjust to suit the ability of your specific domain. The concept of rolling wave planning (a practical implementation of agile) has been used in construction for many many years, as was concepts like extreme programming in software. Both these approaches allowed agility but only the software domain actually formalized it with the Agile Manifesto.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 23, 2018 1:33 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Anton, thanks a lot for the great input.
From my experience, I do not think incremental planning would work in construction especially on large jobs for so many reasons of which one of them is that you will never get a clear estimate unlil you reach to each stage because incremental planning will lead to incremental estimating (Somehow).
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Jan 23, 2018 1:05 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
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Maybe if we break down Agile into different components (what makes it agile) then it would be easier to see the practical application. The most important of these components is the concept of incremental delivery, thus incremental planning. The fact that we only do detailed planning for the next 'release' and vague planning for something that will be delivered in 12 months time allows us some room to change without breaking everything (agility). It is important to remember that the concept of agility is different for different domains.
In software development, the ability to change in two weeks (typical iteration cycle) is considered as agile but it makes no sense in construction which is more like a big cargo ship that takes a while to change direction.
In construction, you would not necessarily do fortnightly planning sessions, it will adjust to suit the ability of your specific domain. The concept of rolling wave planning (a practical implementation of agile) has been used in construction for many many years, as was concepts like extreme programming in software. Both these approaches allowed agility but only the software domain actually formalized it with the Agile Manifesto.
Anton, thanks a lot for the great input.
From my experience, I do not think incremental planning would work in construction especially on large jobs for so many reasons of which one of them is that you will never get a clear estimate unlil you reach to each stage because incremental planning will lead to incremental estimating (Somehow). Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Jan 23, 2018 1:05 AM
Replying to Anton Oosthuizen
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Maybe if we break down Agile into different components (what makes it agile) then it would be easier to see the practical application. The most important of these components is the concept of incremental delivery, thus incremental planning. The fact that we only do detailed planning for the next 'release' and vague planning for something that will be delivered in 12 months time allows us some room to change without breaking everything (agility). It is important to remember that the concept of agility is different for different domains.
In software development, the ability to change in two weeks (typical iteration cycle) is considered as agile but it makes no sense in construction which is more like a big cargo ship that takes a while to change direction.
In construction, you would not necessarily do fortnightly planning sessions, it will adjust to suit the ability of your specific domain. The concept of rolling wave planning (a practical implementation of agile) has been used in construction for many many years, as was concepts like extreme programming in software. Both these approaches allowed agility but only the software domain actually formalized it with the Agile Manifesto.
Anton
I think you are trying force-fit the use of agile terminology where it does not belong.
Rolling wave planning 1. This technique have existed in capital projects for decades, long before anyone have have heard of lean or agile. 2. This is a planning technique and agile is not about planning it is about delivery in increments --- means analyze-plan-design-implement-test-release cycles
Now the idea of agile and scrum - evolve around a key word "release" and release means {releasing a workable product to the customer} read this phrase as bold for emphasis.
Finally, as I mentioned before, we need to separate the idea of using SOME concepts, versus using Agile as a PM Method Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Rami
On the point of incremental planning, I agree with Anton on this point. That is Rolling Wave Planning.
Let us consider this from a Project Owner perspective, the project owner team (PMT) will have to come up with what I call (in the CAMMP Model), the Class 1 Estimate. This estimate is done during the feasibility stage (Pre-Project in PMI world). The estimate, will include the total expected cost (TEC) of the whole project, plus approximate cost for each phase/stage --- and the same thing for time.
Along the project life cycle, we will have two or more estimates like this, each of them will update the TEC and will have higher accuracy (lower uncertainty)
After the feasibility stage, we move into the next stage. The first thing the PMT should do is to develop a Stage Management Plan, including a detailed or semi detailed schedule and cost for the given stage; then repeat the process in every stage.
If the stage is significant, like an engineering or construction stages, then the PMT will use the boundaries from the overall project TEC and Schedule, and develop a semi-detailed schedule for the stage work - covering the duration of the stage (which would be many months or even years).
Then, we expand this schedule further by discipline or craft.
Again, we will expand the schedule for Monthly-look-ahead schedule --- and it might be common practice to go down another level with weekly look ahead schedule
That is Incremental Scheduling and partially, planning and it is at the heard of TRADITIONAL CAPITAL PROJECTS and what I learned at least 25 years ago.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 23, 2018 11:43 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Mounir,
Thanks for your input. I hear what you are trying to say but I am not sure this will work smoothly on large construction jobs especially in the Middle East. What do you think ?
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Rami, Vincent: I wrote that each time we need to open a new office or to create a new place into a market we use Scrum. I am in charge of this type of initiatives working with our Facilities division. What do you need as practical example?
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Jan 23, 2018 11:45 AM
Rami Kaibni
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What I mean Sergio, is:
1- You are talking about opening an office. When you say opening, do you mean Building / Constructing one ?
2- If yes, then how exactly do use Agile in the construction of your new office or place ?
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Mounir,
Thanks for your input. I hear what you are trying to say but I am not sure this will work smoothly on large construction jobs especially in the Middle East. What do you think ? Saving Changes...
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