Drake SettsuProject Manager / BloggerHi, United States
My thoughts are that PM's have so much on their plate managing multiple projects of varying complexity and being drawn into the BA role on some of the projects they manage comes with HIGH RISK.
On the plus side if a BA is needed and the PM is just sitting on the bench with some free time to spare. LOL! Like that will happen. I will be serious now. I do think having both BA/PM skills are a definite plus to the organization. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
I was part of the group that create the role and standards from the very begining. At this time inside the IIBA (we started before the IIBA formaly existed), now inside the PMI. In the beging those that were project mangers performs the BA role. The key thing to take into account (with the key understanding that skills are totally different) is: BA must let stakeholders fly. PM will take them to earth. Sometimes when you have performed PM role for years people have a tendency to put their stakeholders into earth quickly. That is a big mistake when you perform as BA.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Mar 02, 2018 10:09 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Nice explanation Sergio. When you say BA makes stakeholders fly, it means too much expectations or promises ? I did not get this part. Thanks
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Mar 02, 2018 10:06 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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I was part of the group that create the role and standards from the very begining. At this time inside the IIBA (we started before the IIBA formaly existed), now inside the PMI. In the beging those that were project mangers performs the BA role. The key thing to take into account (with the key understanding that skills are totally different) is: BA must let stakeholders fly. PM will take them to earth. Sometimes when you have performed PM role for years people have a tendency to put their stakeholders into earth quickly. That is a big mistake when you perform as BA.
Nice explanation Sergio. When you say BA makes stakeholders fly, it means too much expectations or promises ? I did not get this part. Thanks
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Mar 02, 2018 10:24 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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BA work is to understand the problem (which emerges because needs) and guide the stakeholders to define, create, put in place the solution. After that BA continues working to monitoring if solution is achieving the expected benefits. Problem is the gap between perceived reality and desire reality then you can work on the perception, you can work on the desire or you can work on the gap where the gap will be the list of things that conceptualize the problem. Just in case BA work on desire she/he must let stakeholders fly because when the desires are evaluated from the point of view of feasibility then the problem is solved due to the desire is inviable in terms of cost-benefit where cost and benefit are not related to money only. What I saw when a PM perform the role of BA is a tendency to say "no" so quickly into early stages which is totally understandable.
I did it for 7 years. Complexity of projects is one factor, as someone mentioned earlier. Equally important is volume of projects.
When I was fulfilling both roles, six projects was probably the most I could have handled, at any given time. This was also pre-SAP, so the BA side was not as complex as the projects I manage, now. Requirements, testing, and training were less complex, and I didn't have to worry about configuring SAP, on top of that.
Today, six projects seems to be the minimum number of projects I manage, and they are almost all SAP projects. I could not effectively fill both roles without significantly reducing the number of projects.
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1 reply by Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
Mar 02, 2018 8:57 PM
Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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Agreed it can be done, I have seen it. I haven't done it myself officially...although I would argue that business transformations and even change management within projects use elements of BA.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Mar 02, 2018 10:09 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Nice explanation Sergio. When you say BA makes stakeholders fly, it means too much expectations or promises ? I did not get this part. Thanks
BA work is to understand the problem (which emerges because needs) and guide the stakeholders to define, create, put in place the solution. After that BA continues working to monitoring if solution is achieving the expected benefits. Problem is the gap between perceived reality and desire reality then you can work on the perception, you can work on the desire or you can work on the gap where the gap will be the list of things that conceptualize the problem. Just in case BA work on desire she/he must let stakeholders fly because when the desires are evaluated from the point of view of feasibility then the problem is solved due to the desire is inviable in terms of cost-benefit where cost and benefit are not related to money only. What I saw when a PM perform the role of BA is a tendency to say "no" so quickly into early stages which is totally understandable.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Mar 02, 2018 11:45 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Got It - Thanks for the explanation Sergio. Much Appreciated.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Mar 02, 2018 10:24 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
BA work is to understand the problem (which emerges because needs) and guide the stakeholders to define, create, put in place the solution. After that BA continues working to monitoring if solution is achieving the expected benefits. Problem is the gap between perceived reality and desire reality then you can work on the perception, you can work on the desire or you can work on the gap where the gap will be the list of things that conceptualize the problem. Just in case BA work on desire she/he must let stakeholders fly because when the desires are evaluated from the point of view of feasibility then the problem is solved due to the desire is inviable in terms of cost-benefit where cost and benefit are not related to money only. What I saw when a PM perform the role of BA is a tendency to say "no" so quickly into early stages which is totally understandable.
Got It - Thanks for the explanation Sergio. Much Appreciated.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Mar 02, 2018 4:18 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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You are welcome. All this stuff can be reading inside the IIBA or PMI BOKs and related documentation.
Saving Changes...
Drake SettsuProject Manager / BloggerHi, United States
Thanks Serigo for your detailed explanations. That is very good information to keep in mind.
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1 reply by Sergio Luis Conte
Mar 02, 2018 4:18 PM
Sergio Luis Conte
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You are welcome. All this stuff can be reading inside the IIBA or PMI BOKs and related documentation.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Mar 02, 2018 11:45 AM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Got It - Thanks for the explanation Sergio. Much Appreciated.
You are welcome. All this stuff can be reading inside the IIBA or PMI BOKs and related documentation. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Mar 02, 2018 3:42 PM
Replying to Drake Settsu
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Thanks Serigo for your detailed explanations. That is very good information to keep in mind.
You are welcome. All this stuff can be reading inside the IIBA or PMI BOKs and related documentation. Saving Changes...
I did it for 7 years. Complexity of projects is one factor, as someone mentioned earlier. Equally important is volume of projects.
When I was fulfilling both roles, six projects was probably the most I could have handled, at any given time. This was also pre-SAP, so the BA side was not as complex as the projects I manage, now. Requirements, testing, and training were less complex, and I didn't have to worry about configuring SAP, on top of that.
Today, six projects seems to be the minimum number of projects I manage, and they are almost all SAP projects. I could not effectively fill both roles without significantly reducing the number of projects.
Agreed it can be done, I have seen it. I haven't done it myself officially...although I would argue that business transformations and even change management within projects use elements of BA. Saving Changes...
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