Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 12, 2018 1:37 AM
Replying to Riyadh Salih
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Rami, so we are in line though I did not meant the letters after your name in particular I was just saying that in general as I was always thinking about it but now you made it clear so cheers
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 12, 2018 4:22 AM
Replying to Sante Delle-Vergini, PhD
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guys, I have cracked the equation for letters after the name;
Sante Vergini A-Z
LOL Great Solution and the you name it Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 11, 2018 1:13 PM
Replying to Rami Kaibni
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Sergio, thanks for the information. I am glad to hear that there is a new estimation parctice standard that will be issued soon.
What you mentioned makes sense but people look at things differently especially in different countries. Like I mentioned below, I assure you that such certification will be highly desirable in regions like the middle east and gulf region.
I think that getting lot of certifications jeopardizes the intention to make project management a profession. For example, certifications like program and portfolio and standards like program and portfolio has no sense. When you read them you notice they have no consistence (take into account I was part of reviewing both standards so I am not making this comment as a concern only). That was the case with OPM certification. In fact, in my personal opinion, we need to help organizations to clarify the type of needs you are talking about. Both has no sense and if some organization is requesting that is because has not idea about what cost management and estimation management is.
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1 reply by Rami Kaibni
Apr 12, 2018 1:06 PM
Rami Kaibni
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Sergio, in a sense, I agree with your point of view. I also do not see (For Now) much value in the PfMP or PgMP but for the Cost Certification .... Hmmmm .... I might have a different opinion it is just because I really learn a lot during the journey.
Saving Changes...
Anish AbrahamPrivacy Program Manager| University of WashingtonAuburn, Wa, United States
I think it's a very good idea, and I'm sure there will be lots of demand for the certifications holders.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 12, 2018 10:11 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
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I think that getting lot of certifications jeopardizes the intention to make project management a profession. For example, certifications like program and portfolio and standards like program and portfolio has no sense. When you read them you notice they have no consistence (take into account I was part of reviewing both standards so I am not making this comment as a concern only). That was the case with OPM certification. In fact, in my personal opinion, we need to help organizations to clarify the type of needs you are talking about. Both has no sense and if some organization is requesting that is because has not idea about what cost management and estimation management is.
Sergio, in a sense, I agree with your point of view. I also do not see (For Now) much value in the PfMP or PgMP but for the Cost Certification .... Hmmmm .... I might have a different opinion it is just because I really learn a lot during the journey. Saving Changes...
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 12, 2018 10:43 AM
Replying to Anish Abraham
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I think it's a very good idea, and I'm sure there will be lots of demand for the certifications holders.
I do think so too Anish. Saving Changes...
MARK A ANNUNZIATA, SrVP/EXPERT CONSULTANCY TO THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY| ROMAN STRUCTURES, INC WELLINGTON FLDammam, Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia
Gentlemen and Rami-
This is a very amusing discourse! As an estimating professional, I know that many aspects of estimating cannot be taught. The proprietary information acquired by a Professional Estimator in a Specific Field in a specific Location of the world is usually hoarded jealously by the Estimator. Ask any professional Estimator that has attended an organizational Cocktail Party---absolutely no Insights change hands during discussions! Very Boring!
Where a special certification would be more effective is in the Primavera Scheduling field. My schedulers lack of understanding of work packages, durations, and Close Out processes is uniformly disturbing to me as a PM.
From the Trenches-
M
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2 replies by Rami Kaibni and Sergio Luis Conte
Apr 16, 2018 9:34 AM
Sergio Luis Conte
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Good to read to other that had made estimations in professional way. What you stated is key to understand why a certification, a generalistic certification, has not much sense. No matter that, the PMI is working into a new version of the Practice Guide for Estimations (the first version is realy useless). I do not know how the final result or the approach taken at this time is. I was asked by the PMI to perform as SME Reviewer. But as you know, you can make comments but those comments are decided to be included or not by a committee. What I will encourage people is participating into the draft public review. I will post the date but I think it will be in the second quarter of this year.
Apr 16, 2018 11:43 AM
Rami Kaibni
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Good feedback Mark.
I also worked in estimation for many years and saw many who doesn’t know the basics of estimation and costing, cost control, budgeting just the way your experience was with schedulers.
I am not talking soecifically about estimation for this certificate, I am talking about budgeting and cost control too. Estimation is one side of cost management which you are right, can’t be taught at all. Yet, many other aspects of schedueling can’t be taught too.
Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
Apr 16, 2018 8:28 AM
Replying to MARK A ANNUNZIATA, Sr
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Gentlemen and Rami-
This is a very amusing discourse! As an estimating professional, I know that many aspects of estimating cannot be taught. The proprietary information acquired by a Professional Estimator in a Specific Field in a specific Location of the world is usually hoarded jealously by the Estimator. Ask any professional Estimator that has attended an organizational Cocktail Party---absolutely no Insights change hands during discussions! Very Boring!
Where a special certification would be more effective is in the Primavera Scheduling field. My schedulers lack of understanding of work packages, durations, and Close Out processes is uniformly disturbing to me as a PM.
From the Trenches-
M
Good to read to other that had made estimations in professional way. What you stated is key to understand why a certification, a generalistic certification, has not much sense. No matter that, the PMI is working into a new version of the Practice Guide for Estimations (the first version is realy useless). I do not know how the final result or the approach taken at this time is. I was asked by the PMI to perform as SME Reviewer. But as you know, you can make comments but those comments are decided to be included or not by a committee. What I will encourage people is participating into the draft public review. I will post the date but I think it will be in the second quarter of this year.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 16, 2018 9:34 AM
Replying to Sergio Luis Conte
...
Good to read to other that had made estimations in professional way. What you stated is key to understand why a certification, a generalistic certification, has not much sense. No matter that, the PMI is working into a new version of the Practice Guide for Estimations (the first version is realy useless). I do not know how the final result or the approach taken at this time is. I was asked by the PMI to perform as SME Reviewer. But as you know, you can make comments but those comments are decided to be included or not by a committee. What I will encourage people is participating into the draft public review. I will post the date but I think it will be in the second quarter of this year.
Senior Projects Manager | Field & Marten AssociatesNew Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Apr 16, 2018 8:28 AM
Replying to MARK A ANNUNZIATA, Sr
...
Gentlemen and Rami-
This is a very amusing discourse! As an estimating professional, I know that many aspects of estimating cannot be taught. The proprietary information acquired by a Professional Estimator in a Specific Field in a specific Location of the world is usually hoarded jealously by the Estimator. Ask any professional Estimator that has attended an organizational Cocktail Party---absolutely no Insights change hands during discussions! Very Boring!
Where a special certification would be more effective is in the Primavera Scheduling field. My schedulers lack of understanding of work packages, durations, and Close Out processes is uniformly disturbing to me as a PM.
From the Trenches-
M
Good feedback Mark.
I also worked in estimation for many years and saw many who doesn’t know the basics of estimation and costing, cost control, budgeting just the way your experience was with schedulers.
I am not talking soecifically about estimation for this certificate, I am talking about budgeting and cost control too. Estimation is one side of cost management which you are right, can’t be taught at all. Yet, many other aspects of schedueling can’t be taught too. Saving Changes...