That PMP application process does not check if your project was successful. The major parts are; 4500/7500 hours of experience and 35 contact hours of training. This experience may have been gotten from poorly managed / failed project but there is no process to verify that.
**The Application Audit is a random process and does not check if best practices were observed in your recorded project.
Not according to the PMI and PMP advocates and marketing people - they say the PMP is a proof of competence and ability to lead projects successfully - at least that is the marketing hype.
Seriously now - you are 100% right. The application does not even ask about your role on the project - you could have been the secretary and still can get away with it if you right the application carefully.
How to proof that? PMI trust you.
In my view - this is one of the reasons the PMP rank low when compared to other PM certifications.
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1 reply by Justin Wortley
Apr 28, 2016 2:32 PM
Justin Wortley
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I'm not sure I'd say the PMP ranks low in compared to other certifications. Project management methodologies these days are pretty diverse depending on both the business and the department. In terms of the traditional waterfall (even though PMI will claim no bias to one methodology over another), the PMP is the most well-respected certification out there. Other methodologies like Agile, then certainly there are other options.
In regards to measuring project success. You don't have to have a successful project to learn something from it which is entire philosophy of what the PMP stands for. Follow the processes, if you succeed document what worked well and what didn't, if you fail document what worked well and what didn't. Also keep in mind that auditing both project success rate and position within the project are very difficult to do as you run into potential intellectual property and confidential organizational information depending on the company.
Saving Changes...
Christian CummingsOperations Manager| King Technologies, IncMount Pleasant, Sc, United States
Define a successful project. On time, on budget? What if your organization bid the project knowing it was a loss out of the gate, but was willing to take that risk to win the work for its own reasons? If you were the project manager, how would you define success in that case? What if PMI did an audit on one of your projects where you came in on time, on budget, and met every deliverable, but when PMI asked the sponsor/customer, it was not satisfied with the project? Were you successful as the Project Manager? There are too many external factors to say what is and is not a successful project. Saving Changes...
John Caron, MBA, PMP, CSMVP - Technology Project Solutions Consultant| Bank of AmericaJacksonville, Fl, United States
Project success....this is an area I have seen numerous inquiries in how each of use define success. Saving Changes...
Justin WortleyProject Manager| Quicken LoansDetroit, Mi, United States
I'm not sure I'd say the PMP ranks low in compared to other certifications. Project management methodologies these days are pretty diverse depending on both the business and the department. In terms of the traditional waterfall (even though PMI will claim no bias to one methodology over another), the PMP is the most well-respected certification out there. Other methodologies like Agile, then certainly there are other options.
In regards to measuring project success. You don't have to have a successful project to learn something from it which is entire philosophy of what the PMP stands for. Follow the processes, if you succeed document what worked well and what didn't, if you fail document what worked well and what didn't. Also keep in mind that auditing both project success rate and position within the project are very difficult to do as you run into potential intellectual property and confidential organizational information depending on the company. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Apr 28, 2016 12:20 PM
Replying to Christian Cummings
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Define a successful project. On time, on budget? What if your organization bid the project knowing it was a loss out of the gate, but was willing to take that risk to win the work for its own reasons? If you were the project manager, how would you define success in that case? What if PMI did an audit on one of your projects where you came in on time, on budget, and met every deliverable, but when PMI asked the sponsor/customer, it was not satisfied with the project? Were you successful as the Project Manager? There are too many external factors to say what is and is not a successful project.
Christian
You are right - success is too open but at least PM success or proven competence should be addressed.
Assuming we cannot touch success, then how about good performance? How about knowing how to apply the concepts?
It is a tough topic. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Justin
My comment on the PMP ranking is not my opinion but it is based on a PhD study that compared certification. The criteria include many factors, such as pre-requisite, level of experience, etc.
The PMP is most recognized that does not equate most respected but again, this is an opinion.
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1 reply by Justin Wortley
Apr 28, 2016 2:49 PM
Justin Wortley
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I think we can say that about a lot of "soft-skills" certifications in regards to respectable being in the eye of the beholder. But you're right 100% in that there is a gap or I guess you could say loophole to "project management experience" in terms of the application process but closing that loophole is not an easy task since there are quite a few variables.
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Justin WortleyProject Manager| Quicken LoansDetroit, Mi, United States
I think we can say that about a lot of "soft-skills" certifications in regards to respectable being in the eye of the beholder. But you're right 100% in that there is a gap or I guess you could say loophole to "project management experience" in terms of the application process but closing that loophole is not an easy task since there are quite a few variables. Saving Changes...
Sergio Luis ConteHelping to create solutions for everyone| Worldwide based OrganizationsBuenos Aires, Argentina
You need to read what a certification means. It is inside the handbook definition. Because of that it has no sence to check about that. If you hired a certified project manager because you think the certification assures that person will manage a project to be successful you are lost. Saving Changes...
The audit is to validate the hours of working experience in the context of project.
Even is you worked in a poorly manage project doesn't mean you didn't acquire good experience? We learn from mistakes!
I do. Saving Changes...
I am Planning to appear for PMP exam. I still hope the PMP certification has it merits.
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3 replies by Gina Abudi, Linda Miller, and SatheeshKumar Mahalingam
Apr 29, 2016 8:43 AM
Linda Miller
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I hesitated and delayed doing the certification but I did it eventually and it is well worth the effort. I was job hunting at the time I completed certification and I sincerely believed getting the qualification speeded up the process.
May 22, 2016 11:51 PM
SatheeshKumar Mahalingam
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Thank you.. Mounir Ajam and Linda Miller.
May 23, 2016 7:43 AM
Gina Abudi
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Yes, it has its merits but should not be seen as an indicative of a great project manager - experience will get you that.
