That PMP application process does not check if your project was successful. The major parts are; 4500/7500 hours of experience and 35 contact hours of training. This experience may have been gotten from poorly managed / failed project but there is no process to verify that.
**The Application Audit is a random process and does not check if best practices were observed in your recorded project.
I think we can say that about a lot of "soft-skills" certifications in regards to respectable being in the eye of the beholder. But you're right 100% in that there is a gap or I guess you could say loophole to "project management experience" in terms of the application process but closing that loophole is not an easy task since there are quite a few variables.
In regard to closing the loopholes - other organizations are doing it - why cannot PMI?
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1 reply by Justin Wortley
Apr 29, 2016 1:07 PM
Justin Wortley
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That was a good read. Thanks for the PDF.
In regards to the loopholes, I'm sure it's a resources game. What's the natural response to closing loopholes? More stringent auditing? What does that entail - more resources allocated to doing it, which then increases the price of the exam, which might then price some qualified people out of the market for it. Is that a terrible thing? Not necessarily, but I don't think it's as easy to just plainly state to close the loopholes when you already have a pretty difficult exam in a very secure testing location, on top of requiring a number of other things. I will admit I am bias, being a PMP - I guess I just don't see validating every hour of project experience as something that increases the credibility of the certification. If the job market is any indication, at least in my area, they don't care. They still prefer seeing PMP's on the resumes. Now if you have a PMP without any PM experience, you'll most likely get exposed pretty quickly and really that's how all certifications without having the relevant experience work - not just Project Management ones. But I do see your point 100%, I just don't know of a particularly clean solution.
Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Segio
How many do you think read the handbook? They read the marketing, which often contradict the handbook.
Also PMI is NOT applying the content and intent of the handbook. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Apr 28, 2016 6:22 PM
Replying to Vincent Guerard
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The audit is to validate the hours of working experience in the context of project.
Even is you worked in a poorly manage project doesn't mean you didn't acquire good experience? We learn from mistakes!
I do.
Agree - and in this case - PMI should not allow marketing that says "proven competence" or "ability to complete projects successfully". Truth in the marketing is a law in some countries - but unfortunately it is often not enforced. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Apr 29, 2016 2:41 AM
Replying to SatheeshKumar Mahalingam
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I am Planning to appear for PMP exam. I still hope the PMP certification has it merits.
The PMP certification is a good certification and it has merit (PM wise) and a great value (marketing wise). It all depends on what you want. Saving Changes...
Linda MillerProject ManagementHuntington, Ny, United States
It is an interesting question but I wonder what benefit it would bring to the application process. As others have said the exercise is one of qualifying experience rather than assessing success. Saving Changes...
Linda MillerProject ManagementHuntington, Ny, United States
Apr 29, 2016 2:41 AM
Replying to SatheeshKumar Mahalingam
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I am Planning to appear for PMP exam. I still hope the PMP certification has it merits.
I hesitated and delayed doing the certification but I did it eventually and it is well worth the effort. I was job hunting at the time I completed certification and I sincerely believed getting the qualification speeded up the process. Saving Changes...
Justin WortleyProject Manager| Quicken LoansDetroit, Mi, United States
That was a good read. Thanks for the PDF.
In regards to the loopholes, I'm sure it's a resources game. What's the natural response to closing loopholes? More stringent auditing? What does that entail - more resources allocated to doing it, which then increases the price of the exam, which might then price some qualified people out of the market for it. Is that a terrible thing? Not necessarily, but I don't think it's as easy to just plainly state to close the loopholes when you already have a pretty difficult exam in a very secure testing location, on top of requiring a number of other things. I will admit I am bias, being a PMP - I guess I just don't see validating every hour of project experience as something that increases the credibility of the certification. If the job market is any indication, at least in my area, they don't care. They still prefer seeing PMP's on the resumes. Now if you have a PMP without any PM experience, you'll most likely get exposed pretty quickly and really that's how all certifications without having the relevant experience work - not just Project Management ones. But I do see your point 100%, I just don't know of a particularly clean solution. Saving Changes...
Anonymous
Hi Justin
There are many ways to clean the process without increasing the exam. PMI has more than 300 million US in assets and millions in net income per year. All it takes is to be willing to spend a bit more; reducing the income by a few percentage points without increasing exam costs.
What is needed are simple things:
1. Let PMI publishes the percent of applications audited - this is probably 1 hour exercise and it does not cost millions.
2. Let PMI publishes the percent of those failing an audit - again negligible cost
3. When auditing people - make a call or email the person verifying the info
4. When auditing people - ask for CV and view the LinkedIn profile of people
5. Audit more people
6. Can request formal letter from management about the job description of the applicant; more work on the applicant but one more document to review by PMI.
There are many other things PMI can do; including things like referral letters. I am sure others could come up with other ideas.
By the way, most of these comments have been submitted to PMI in the past; including a period when I was on the REP Advisory Group. Other suggestions were to certify trainers so PMP training is not a commodity.
However, the response was always not enough staff; yet we see PMI assets grows by the tens of millions US every year.
Let me close this discussion from my end by asking this multi-part question:
Is the PMP a critical brand to PMI and the professional community? If it is, is not worth it to protect it? Keep in mind, for those with limited experience, there is the CAPM. Saving Changes...
I had been wanting to share this for long. The first two PMPs I met had NO PROJECT EXPERIENCE. It goes to show that the both of them were sharp and shrewd. They must have lied on their applications. At the same time, it rings alarms for the certifying body.
One of them eventually took the course of planning and worked in projects.The other worked in projects for some time and then returned to his/her operations job because of monitory issues.
When I compare, our internal certification system is way tougher than PMP. I share with colleagues that for me PMP was easier than our own certification. For our company quality matters and that's that. I will not take a person who knows what the processes are and how the system works. I need a person who has proven record of success. Spending a little on quality is always saving manifolds than the little spent. Saving Changes...
Stéphane ParentSelf Employed / Semi-retired| Leader MakerPrince Edward Island, Canada
I can state that my third certification application was audited. It would be interesting to know if this is standard for holders of multiples PMI certifications. Saving Changes...
